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Identifying and questions re: Tokai Love Rock
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beerslinger
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Joined: 06 Sep 2001
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a 60 to me based on the headstock angle and what looks like a two piece back. I have the mate to it s/n 4022879 with flame top and 2 piece back and always thought it was an LS60.
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leadguitar_323
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Joined: 14 Nov 2006
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Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the LS60's ever had a flame veneer top.

Mick
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beerslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So would my guitar be an LS80 as well, with the two piece back??
This has always confused me regarding the 60/80's
The 80 should have a one piece back shouldn't it?
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leadguitar_323
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think only the early LS-80's had a one piece back. Things cahnged in the early eighties, like the veneer top.

Mick
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michaeld
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beerslinger wrote:
Looks like a 60 to me based on the headstock angle and what looks like a two piece back. I have the mate to it s/n 4022879 with flame top and 2 piece back and always thought it was an LS60.


That leads to another interesting discussion (at least for me).

I noted that the 60 model has a headstock angle of 14, and the 80 and higher models are 18 degree.

Using the pic I supplied of the neck and headstock, I traced a pair of lines from the bottom of the headstock and the bottom of the neck. Then I pulled out Mr. Protractor and got an angle of 20 degrees (too much, obviously, but I figured it was a lot closer to 18 than 14).

But I may be using the wrong aspects of the guitar to come up with my measurement of the headstock angle?

When I look at my guitar back, however, it DOES look like it MIGHT be a 2 piece (it is a VERY good job if it is, and the seam is hard to identify for certain even with with the guitar in your hand). The fact that it appears that there might be a seam makes it more likely that there is one than not.

If one can measure the angle from the bottom/back of the neck to the bottom/back of the headstock, then it is almost certainly an 18 degree neck.

An 18 degree neck with a 2 piece back would seem to amount to conflicting data.

Is it possible that the 1984's LS80s were two piece backs (assuming it has a 2 piece back)? Based on the model number (4022555), I noted that it would have been a late '84 run. I saw something that a '1' would be an early year run, and a '2' a late year run.
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leadguitar_323
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No conflict at all...its a ls 80.....like i said earlier the specs for these guitars changed in the early eighties, your guitar is almost the same as Ozeshin's guitar and it should also have 57 PAF pickups.

Mick
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Ozeshin
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Joined: 13 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
An 18 degree neck with a 2 piece back would seem to amount to conflicting data.

Is it possible that the 1984's LS80s were two piece backs (assuming it has a 2 piece back)? Based on the model number (4022555), I noted that it would have been a late '84 run. I saw something that a '1' would be an early year run, and a '2' a late year run.

My 1985 LS80 has an 18 degree pitch and a two piece back...and like yours,it's almost impossible to locate the join.
1985 was the year that the LS80 changed to two piece backs and lost the fret edge binding(meaning that the binding actually covers the ends of the fret wire) as part of the catalogue.
I would safely bet that during 1984 Tokai were testing the production changes...so yes..you'll find quite a few LS80 from 1984 with two piece backs and the lack of fret edge binding.
Also...LS50 and LS60 didn't have a one piece neck....only the LS80 and up had that feature.
That might be another way to distinguish but if it's anything like the backs it'll probably be a hard task to find a seam.
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michaeld
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an amazing seal job, if it's a 2 piece (I'll look more carefully in the sunlight). I didn't even notice until Beerslinger said he thought he saw the seam in one of the pics.

I looked at the pics and couldn't tell, so I looked at the guitar - and STILL couldn't tell. In some angles you can kind of see what may be a seam, and then you turn it only slightly, and it's gone - and ANOTHER area has the same "seam" look.

In a weird way, if it's a 2 piece back, I've actually got more respect for the builders than I would if it's a single piece. It took some substantial craftsmanship and attention to detail to fade a joint like that.

Tomorrow I'll tune her up (or, if I have trouble tuning it, take it to have it tuned and possibly restrung) and start practicing some chord changes.

I had it restrung about 4 or 5 years ago, but it's sat in its case since then.
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leadguitar_323
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tokai has extremely good joins and yes, they can be almost impossible to see. The build quality of these guitars is as good as almost anything else around, that is the main reason i am attracted to these wonderful guitars.

Mick
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michaeld
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

leadguitar_323 wrote:
Tokai has extremely good joins and yes, they can be almost impossible to see. The build quality of these guitars is as good as almost anything else around, that is the main reason i am attracted to these wonderful guitars.

Mick


After giving it a good look, it does appear to have a seam, like Beerslinger thought. But even in sunlight, it's STILL pretty hard to detect. Frankly, it doesn't look very different from other grain patterns, and if it wasn't located in the center (where you'd expect a one piece join to be), and if Mick hadn't said his was virtually invisible also, I would've just assumed it was a grain.

I don't know one whit about guitars, and I'm not even very expert about woodwork. I'll be interested to go to some music stores and look at other guitars to compare quality of build and materials.

But it appears to be a much nicer guitar than I deserve, and I hope I can ultimately do it justice by finally learning how to play it.
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stratman323
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michaeld wrote:
But it appears to be a much nicer guitar than I deserve, and I hope I can ultimately do it justice by finally learning how to play it.


Most of my guitars are better than I deserve, to be brutally honest, & I play in a band.



It's good to know that you're playing something that will always challenge you, however long you live. Or is that just me?

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michaeld
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was once a musical instrument that I totally mastered:

the great and glorious kazoo.
http://www.kazoos.com/pub/index.htm

Oh, you should have heard me play (I was like six, but I RULED the kazoo).

Sadly, the guitar is a far, far more difficult lady to please. And of course, she only looks beautiful hanging on your arm when she's truly pleased with how you play her.
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Ozeshin
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Joined: 13 May 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best advice I can give is to develop your ear for pitch.
Once you can hear a note or a tune and pick the key life on the guitar becomes so much easier...that and knowing how to tune your guitar properly.
When you have a decent ear for pitch you can play along with recorded music and start teaching yourself to play.
I never took formal lessons til after i had been "playing" for 5 years..up til that point i developed an ear for pitch and taught myself to play "what I thought they were playing" from records.
Sure...50% of the time I was playing the correct notes but usually in the wrong position(octave) on the neck.
When I DID try to take some formal lessons the teacher told me that there was nothing that he could teach me and we became good friends and would just get together and jam and trade ideas.
So technically I've never had formal lessons....I'm a very lazy and slow music reader and have always played by ear...even when I was supposed to be reading a chart
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michaeld
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozeshin,

Thanks for that bit of advice from personal experience.

I think everyone probably learns differently. Some learn best the way you did; others need a teacher.

I'll have to figure out what I need.

I'm just going to start somewhere (and that somewhere is practicing chords and doing chord transitions for now), and then add a teacher, or a class, or a DVD series, as I feel the need and have the opportunity.

I might be able to find a music teacher locally (don't even know where to look for one), but the music stores and advertised professional teachers are located 25 miles away. So I'll be looking to stumble into someone local.

But in the meantime, I might as well practice SOMETHING.
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michaeld
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozeshin wrote:
The best advice I can give is to develop your ear for pitch.
Once you can hear a note or a tune and pick the key life on the guitar becomes so much easier...that and knowing how to tune your guitar properly.
When you have a decent ear for pitch you can play along with recorded music and start teaching yourself to play.


I thought I'd better make this separate, so it didn't get lost with the other stuff I wrote.

I am thinking about buying one of those electronic gizmos that plug into your guitar and tell you when you're too high/low, and when your string is "tuned."

I would ultimately like to get to Ozeshin's "ear," but in the meantime, would one of these electronic tuners be a good idea?
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