Tokai's, whats the big deal.

I bought a new Tokai Love Rock about a month ago,an LS75 Gold Top with soap bars. All in all not a bad guitar, but cetainly nothing special. The hardware is pretty good and the Gotoh single coil pickups sound good as well. But the guitar itself is nothing to write home about. Thr fret work is rough, there are lots of sharp frets that need to be dressed. The intonation on the D string is flat and there isn't enough adjustment to fix it.The jack came loose , no big deal, so I removed the inspection cover from the back to make sure I didn't twist up the wires when I tightened up the jack.I figured they would use a metal pan for shielding like Gibson, but it has some kind of "metalized paint" instead. It works OK, but it is kind of cheap. Also, the hole for the jack on the bottom of the guitar is too large and the jack plate screws had broken through the wood and into the hole for the jack, really kind of poor build quality. I thought this model was suppose to have a one piece neck but it's actually two pieces, there's a little piece added to the back of the neck in the heel area. Just for comparison I also own an 82' Gibson Les Paul Standard that I bought brand new back in 82' for $600.00. I have no issues with this guitar, it has been a tried and true friend for over twenty years. It plays great and sounds great, with no set up or quality issues( well almost,the bridge pickup became microphonic a couple of months ago, and I replaced both pickups with Torres custom Humbuckers).

I'll probably make some people angry with this post, sorry, I'm not trying to piss anybody off. It's just that I read so many wonderfull things about Tokai's on this site, and my experience has been a little different. I guess it just goes to show that nobobodys perfect, even Tokai. I don't think Tokai will be getting any more of my money anytime soon.

Regards,
Bill

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OK,let me see if I can break it down . The fret work is BAD, the job wasn't finished properly before shipping. The set up, or something is so bad the guitar will not tune properly. The install of the jack and jack plate is really bad, the word butchery comes to mind. The shielding used in the control cavity is "cheap". I hope this helps to clear up what I tried to say in my first post.

Regards,
Bill

Roadrunner 451 said:

OK,let me see if I can break it down . The fret work is BAD, the job wasn't finished properly before shipping. The set up, or something is so bad the guitar will not tune properly. The install of the jack and jack plate is really bad, the word butchery comes to mind. The shielding used in the control cavity is "cheap". I hope this helps to clear up what I tried to say in my first post.

Regards,
Bill

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Okay, that post was a lot more inflammatory than the original but I'll assume this isn't a troll post. You have to bear in mind that an LS75S is cheaper than a Gibson and therefore won't have some of the 'premium' features (though I've usually found tokai to have better build quality, finishing and fretwork).

Not all Gibsons have the plate. A lot of people take them out for electronics mods anyway. I use the foil sheilding method, which is extra cheap but extra effective. Nickel paint is actually one of the most expensive ways of shielding a guitar.

I've seen setup issues on almost every guitar I've ever tried off the shelf, including Gibsons. Those long journeys from the manufacturer, especially overseas, don't do them any favours. A good shop should offer a full setup service on or before purchase - most of these issues never affect the end user.

It seems that Les Paul type guitars, even Gibsons, suffer a lot from badly cut nuts. This seems to be your problem as it was on mine. The intonation could be helped by reversing the saddle. Setup issues again.

To be fair, the relic I tried did have razor frets.

The jack sounds like a genuine issue, so maybe you're just unlucky and got one of those rare and tragic things - an imperfect Japanese guitar.

well, I have little experience with the new ones and slightly more with older Tokais. I do have a Les Paul Reborn from 1978 thats is as well made as my Gibson LP Standard was.... was because I sold it. As stated above, these are not the high end models so I would not be surprised at imperfections in QC.

null

Well I have an old (vintage and rare) Les Paul custom that sits in its case all day because my 2002 LoveRock sounds better and plays better.

I really do wish my G**son was the dogs nuts because it would be nice to take out with me and enjoy the heritage and all. But the Tokai does it better and it doesn't make any difference how many times I go back 'just to make sure' the result is always the same.


Take your Tokai to a luthier get it setup and then you might find out 'what the big deal is'.

Oh and for the record having owned and played countless Tokais I've never come across the drop in quality you seem to have found.
I can only assume it is a bit of a one off which is a shame, you've been very unlucky.

GB

Hi Roadrunner,

Ha,? you should put that post on the Les Paul Forum, you?d have got a warm round of applause, :lol: LoL!

Ian.

Well, not to put fuel to the flame, but I just bought a new 2003 LS-85Q that had a couple of quality issues. When I received it, there was a noticeable "rattle" from the control cavity when I took it out of the box (I got it from Ken via Ebay, so it was shipped from Japan to the U. S.)

In order to isolate the problem, I loosened all of the pots one by one but the rattle persisted. So then the light bulb went on and I loosened the pots all at once and found that there were problems with two of them. The issue was that the routing in the body cavity was done improperly and the two pots were seating against the shoulder of the body when tightened, so the internal washers were loose. I corrected the problem by adding two more washers to each pot. It wasn't a big deal, but it was annoying.

Also, the intonation was terrible, but there was enough play in the bridge saddles for me to set it properly.

That being said, everything else about the guitar is wonderful. It has a satin finish and a very subltle quilting that I really like. It's almost like a bunch of large birds eyes rather than quilting. The fret work is impeccable and it's a great player. My neck is truly one piece, but I have a '99 Tokai Goldtop that has the same small piece in the neck heel, but it doesn't really bother me that much. I haven't deciced whether to replace the pickups on the new Tokai or not ( I was thinking about Burstbuckers ), because they don't sound too bad.

All in all, I think it is a great value for a Les Paul clone. I have a 2002 Les Paul Deluxe and my new Tokai plays every bit as well at a fraction of the price. For me, the small issues that I had are the kind that I can deal with when the main construction of the guitar is done well.

Just my 2 cents.

The one piece neck thing is such a nit-pickingly tiny detail, it's almost laughable.

If our friends in Nashville stated a one piece neck, then fine, the neck should be from a single piece of timber, including the heel, and ALL of the headstock. At the end of the day, you pay top dollar for it.

The fact Tokai use small additional pieces of timber on the neck (notice the TINY "wings" on the headstock?) is so that they can market an affordable guitar with a 17deg pitch headstock and long tenon (take out your neck pickup one day).

Again, having owned an LP, it had to be setup before it left the shop when I bought it, and a had to go back in a few other times for other finish "glitches" that sailed through the manufacturing QA.

I now have 2 LS70's and no Gibsons. 2 for the price of one with better quality IMO.

This is interesting, particularly in view of the fact that the Japanese guitars are supposed to be of higher quality than the Korean ones. The Korean LR that I bought a year or so ago was perfectly setup, and faultless in it's finish - kinda makes you wonder, especially as the likes of Brian Moore are using more Korean lines.

vaporboy said:

This is interesting, particularly in view of the fact that the Japanese guitars are supposed to be of higher quality than the Korean ones. The Korean LR that I bought a year or so ago was perfectly setup, and faultless in it's finish - kinda makes you wonder, especially as the likes of Brian Moore are using more Korean lines.

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After admitting I had a couple of problems, I didn't emphasized enough how much I like my new LS-85Q. I don't think I've ever purchased a guitar that didn't have a few problems and the problems I've had with this guitar have been easy to remedy.

As I mentioned, the satin finish is great, making it very comfortable to hold and play. The two piece back is so well matched that you have to know there is a seam to find it. You can't see it at all on the end. The binding on the body and the neck is perfect, the inlays on the fretboard have only a tiny bit of filler in a couple of places. The frets are perfectly dressed, there's no buzzing at all and the action is fairly low.

I own a couple of Korean guitars (Dearmond), and while the build quality is very good, they're not up to the Japanese Tokai (scarf joint in the neck, three piece non-mahogany back, cheaper hardware). I think the Japanese Tokais in this price range definitely live up to their reputation.

Roadrunner

What amazes me quite frankly is that you bought such a **** guitar in the first place. If you have experience of quality instruments why did you buy the Tokai?
It took me three months of searching stores to find the best model for me, between ?600-1000, and I ended up with the cheapest, an LS60 at ?599. Why? The finish was spot on and the sound was far more lively than the more expensive ones with better finishes. It plays incredibly well even though it needed tweeking, but the feelings I got when playing were far more focused than any of the other 15 or so I tried. My point is that they all vary, for me it was a testing game of patience.
Seems to me like you bought on a whim.....

8bit Barry said:

Roadrunner

My point is that they all vary, for me it was a testing game of patience.
Seems to me like you bought on a whim.....

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We do not have the ability to try out any Tokai guitars here in the U.S.
Unless less you live near "the guitar cellar".

So for us it's strictly mail order.
No dealers carry Tokia(other than TGC). If they did, it would be the altered version anyways. No chance of anyone ever carrying the actual replica Tokais.

So if we want an actual Japan market Tokai we have to order it from Japan.

Kent

Hello all,

Wow, that got a pretty good reaction,not tottaly unexpected. I'll try and respond to some of your posts.

LoverockerUK: I misunderstood your post, sorry about that.

Paladin2019: It wasn't a troll post, at least I don't think so, not sure what that is. I wasn't aware that the nickel paint was the "high dollar" way to go, my bad. I guess I just like the old school way of the stamped metal pan in the controll cavity. As far as the setup goes, yah your right. The setup may have been pretty **** good as it left the factory, but the trip to the eastern side of the U.S. and back again to the west coast another 2000 miles or so away probably played havoc with the original setup.I would guess any guitar could have some setup issues after a trip like that.

guitarboy: Sorry to hear that your Gibson just doesn't do it for you. I will indeed take my Tokai to a luthier and get it setup good and proper, and I DO hope I find out what the big deal is.

ian: Yah I'm sure those guys would have enjoyed it.

Skybone: As far as the one piece neck thing beeing nit-picky, perhaps. I believe the guitar is advertised as having a one piece neck, but can't remember for sure. In the end, does it make a difference? I don't know for sure, but if I had a choice I would prefer not to have that little extra bit of wood added at the heel.

8bit Barry: Hey man, be cool. I never called my Tokai a ^&* guitar. I purchased my Tokai off the internet so I never had a chance to play it before I bought it. A lot of my decision was based on what
I had read at THIS site and reviews on Harmony Central. Also. I got a **** good deal on it. I would have prefered to buy a Gibson Gold Top, but this seemed like a good compromise, supposed comperable or better quality at a good price.

As long as I'm rolling here I would like to add a few more things. The finnish on my Gold Top is perfect, and the binding is done very well. The one thing I don't like is the dark colored knobs. Now that IS trivial and easily fixed. As I mentioned above I will take this in to get a good and proper setup, which should take care of most if not all of the problems. The fret work and jack issue are the two things that stick out as beeing poorly done by Tokai in my opinion, and that was kind of dissapointing.

Regards,
Bill

I don`t think there is a guitar builder that can make EVERYbody happy. I am very happy with both of mine but they`re older models. As you see, there are plenty of folks who do like their Tokais... and hopefully after you get a little work done to yours you can join the Tokai lovers group. But even if you don`t, doesn`t mean you can`t remain a member here and enjoy our excellent company....or does it? Fellas?

Hi Bill,

Glad to hear you haven?t entirely abandoned Tokai just yet, :lol: LoL! I was going to suggest maybe just returning it and getting a refund, but maybe that?s not so easy when buying via eBay? A good pro set-up can work wonders, although it won?t cure the issues with the jack socket etc. Did you actually tell us if it was MIK or MIJ, I must have missed that? Anyway, best of luck with the set-up, maybe let us know if it improves things :-? ?

Ian.

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Bill, I think we might have forgotten to welcome you to our group! I love it when the fur fly's! :lol: I didnt get into this collecting of MIJ guitars because I felt they were a better product or replaced the fine American companies that originated these models, I do it to be a little different. But I guess it started as a rebellion to the poor product of the late 60's and 70's. These are Replicas, not Knock-offs, or copies. I too did'nt like the dark knobs on my L80's but they are correct. Put a set of Gibson Classic 60's knobs if you want a good looking gold knob. The binding in the cut away, the long tenon, the zebra pup's along with the tone I get from all my Tok's is why I love them, even what you don't see is done correctly... Plus this "Tokai Love-in" we get into every now and again get's Booring! 8) So Bill, welcome , feel free to express yourself. Want to hear what you think after the set-up! Peace-out! :wink: TG