TOKAI LOVEROCK VS. GRECO MINT

I never had a chance to compare them. I own Greco RR65 but never played Tokai LS 60 or 80. I?m thinking of buying one so I could have both - custom and standard replica.

I own both a mint collections EG59-70 and a 1980 Tokai LS80, the differences are nitro finish on the Tokai, fret-edge binding, and a 1-piece back, none of which you would get on a LS60, so a 60 would be closer in spec to a mid range mint collection.

In terms of sound and playability, which is really what matters there's nothing to choose between them, if anything I think the standard (double-trick pickups on the Greco are better than the Tokai pickups.

Don't get me wrong, the LS80 is a great guitar, but the mint collections are IMO much better value for money if it's a player you're looking for.

Mine has Dry 1982 pups. Are those better than Tokais?
What?s about neck thickness and weight?

jimi972 said:

Mine has Dry 1982 pups. Are those better than Tokais?
What?s about neck thickness and weight?

Click to expand...

Neck thickness on the Mint Collection's I've played have been a similar profile to the Tokai's, my LS120 Reborn has a bigger profile though not by much.

Never played the DRY 1982's but they are a higher-end pickup that the 'Double Tricks' and VERY highly rated, I would guess they are better than anything Tokai used.

''better'' is very subjective .....

I know that taste is something unique, thats why I decided to buy RR65... because it was love at first side. I like that guitar because it looks so much different than any Les Paul I?ve seen. I just wanted to know what?s the difference from the technical point of view... specs etc. I did?t know so much about Tokais and Grecos, but in this couple of month I learned a lot.
I always liked customs more than standards. But few years ago I borowed a Gibson custom from a friend of mine and I was dissapointed. I decided that Les Paul it?s not my kind of guitar. But when I tried Greco.... wau. I don?t know if Gibbys setup was poor but... I just didn?t like it.
Diodibuh made a quiz on some forum in Slovenia. He played different Les Paul type guitars with same settings and same gear, but he didn?t tell us which sample belongs to a particular guitar. Almost everybody said that the Gibby had the worst sound.
Here?s the link:
http://forum.zidaric.net/new/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=12080&start=0

Member Zingy was the winner of that quiz.

jimi972 said:

.......
Here?s the link:
http://forum.zidaric.net/new/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=12080&start=0

Member Zingy was the winner of that quiz.

Click to expand...

Diodibuh, could you post an English version please, looks like an interesting thread.

I'll try to translate it and I'll post it here

Diodibuh said:

I'll try to translate it and I'll post it here

Click to expand...

Thanks

ok, short version
it was some kind of competition, winner won high quality guitar cable

I recorded some samples. I used 6 guitars and the same recording rig: Mesa Boogie Mark III amp red stripe + Johnson Amplification 2x12 Vintage30 cabinet - 2x Shure SM57 - Yamaha 03D digital mixing desk - RME Digiface - Cubase 4. I used clean channel + integrated reverb for clean samples and Tonebone Hot British for gain samples. I use the same settings for all guitars. Every record was first take, with all mistakes.
The point was to show the difference between guitars according to names on headstock. I used 6 guitars, the cheapest is worth around 200 ? (Westone) and the most expensive was about 2500 ? (Gibson Les Paul custom '83).
There are 4 samples of each guitar.
sample 1: neck pickup, volume and tone on 10
sample 2: same song, neck pickup, volume on 10 and tone at approx 5
sample 3: bridge pickup, volume + tone at 10
sample 4: first part bridge pickup, then neck pickup, volume and tone at 10. in mix I put little delay. drums: EzDrummer, bass: played on keyboard, rhytm guitar - Fibenare Erotic custom.

1. Tokai Reborn old '80 Les paul standard, MIJ, Fibenare handwound pickups, CTS pots, PIO NOS caps, aluminum tailpiece, faber kit, weight 4106 g, price paid with all upgrades: 1300 ?

clean1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample11.mp3
clean2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample12.mp3
gain1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample13.mp3
gain2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample14.mp3

2. Greco RR65 Les Paul custom '83, MIJ, DRY 82 pickups, weight 3889 g, approx value 1000 ?

clean1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample21.mp3
clean2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample22.mp3
gain1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample23.mp3
gain2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample24.mp3

3. Hamer Special '82, USA, Dimarzio made for Hamer pickups, approx value 1000 ? 3622 g

clean1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample31.mp3
clean2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample32.mp3
gain1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample33.mp3
gain2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample34.mp3

4. Tokai LS 1000 Les Paul standard, 30th anniversary, MIJ, 2007, 3586 g, new price was around 2000 ?

clean1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample41.mp3
clean2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample42.mp3
gain1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample43.mp3
gain2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample44.mp3

5. Westone Thunderjet '84, MIJ, Matsumoku factory, 3760g, approx value 200 ?

clean1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample51.mp3
clean2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample52.mp3
gain1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample53.mp3
gain2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample54.mp3

6. Gibson Les Paul Cusom '83, USA, 4713g, approx value 2500 ?

clean1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample61.mp3
clean2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample62.mp3
gain1: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample63.mp3
gain2: http://www.madd.si/kitare/sampli/sample64.mp3

that competiton was on one Slovenian forum, I asked people to identify guitar and to write which one they like most/ don't like. Lots' of people prefer most Westone and dislike Giboson.

what do you think?
enjoy

Remove the guitar names from the samples. looks like a fun competition, even without a prize I haven't cheated (honest) I'll check back later and have a guess.

The Westone certainly is voiced differently, and I wonder if that affected the outcome... the neck tone is very nice, clear and bell-like, though it hardly changes when the control is rolled down for sample 2 - I'd upgrade those pots and get some orange drops in there Sample 3 on it really lets it down though - muddy and confused compared to the rest. I think my favourite distorted bridge pickup tone is the Reborn followed by the Gibson; much nicer overtones to my ears.

The most disappointing one is the LS1000, which really shocked me! What pickups are in those?

LS1000 - I think MK II. Actually sounds very very good on marshall JMP + 4x12 but has no real character on Mesa boogie.

Some samples are muddy because I left gain pot on Hotbritish untouched to show the difference on same settings.
JohnA - I'll leave like this because of previous Jimi972 posts so anyone can see the original thread on zidaric.net forum

Brilliant!! Some nice, well recorded parts, nice playing too! Certainly show a difference between the guitars! Only listened to the sample 3's so far, I think it's a crunch sound that makes or breaks a LP.

Loved the Reborn, wonder how much of that is down to the pickups?? Never heard of Fibenare, I must find out more!

I liked the Greco too, they sound the lowest OP of all the pickups, good clarity and note seperation but not as rich in overtones as the Reborn.

Hamer was dissapointing for me, could have been an Ibanez bolt-on, pretty straight 'Rock' sound, not the rich sound you associate with a mahogany body.

LS100 - With Alan on this one, very flat and muddy, dare I say cheap sounding Supprised to hear they are MK II's could you have knocked the mic when recording this one?

Westone - Better than I expected, I actually preferred it to the LS1000

Gibson - OK, but not up there with the Tokai IMO

Now if you could repeat all the tests, but this time swap the pickups between guitars :wink:

The neck pickup tone on the Reborn and the Greco RR are very nice.
Cool tunes also...

Mick

JohnA - Fibenare is small Hungarian company, they make hand made guitars, you can check more here
http://www.fibenare-guitars.com/

they're three brothers + guy who makes pickups. I know them, they bulid my dream guitar under my specifications (you saw it and aou didn't like it ), they're great guys. I told Gabor what I want with sound, what kind of guitar do I have and he bulid two pickups for me.

Hamer has Dimarzio/Hamer pickups, neck pickup sounds fanrtastic but bridge is a little bit too thin. Still great player for money.

LS1000 - no, I didnt' change any mics, it was all the same, but as I told before, guitar works fantastic with Marshalls but she really hates Mesa Boogie

And no, I'll not swap pickups Now I have just those two Tokai-i guitars, Greco has Jimi972, Westone is at my friends house who is learning guitar, I borrowed Gibson for test and I sold Hamer last week. Actually now I have 4 Tokai, 1 Fibenare and 1 Zion. And that's all I definitelly need to buy one more

I'll try to make some Strat test one day on some ceriatone TW clone to show difference btw strat type guitars - and I'll make another blind test

Seems Fibenare have a UK distributor in Bristol, I'll definetely have to check them out! I don't care much for the styling, but the quality looks superb.

So you got a TW clone then. a Strat test would be amazing!

Out of interest which LP's did you prefer the sound of?

TW is on the way I still didn't decide between express and liverpool, I tried both, Liverpool has fantastic gain, express has better clean.
maybe I should buy both?

my favourite les paul is reborn, I changed it completelly and made a wonderful player. The original was very good, neck pickup sounds really good but bridge was a little bit weak. that's why I decided to upgraded it.
so: nevermind, if reborn is ls50 - the entry tokai, is fantastic player

I forgot to put a picture of tested guitars

Nice collection, I'd still love to hear the LS1000 with the Fibenare 's