[lyall]

hello, can anyone help me with finding the date of my tokai strat?
i haven't got the s number (cos i'm at work, and only just found this site),
it's a fiesta red 60's copy, with rosewood board, it doesn't look like a spaghetti logo, and it says 'tokai' on the tremelo string guides.
i paid ?400 for it which i thought was a good price. theres a photo of it on http://www.wizardguitars.co.uk (under solidbody ).
the bloke i bought it from says it's from 82. is this a lawsuit strat??
i'll be back tommorow with the s. number.

[lyall]

the serial number is L20 911.

[javelin70]

Well, it's hard to see the logo on the pictures but the L serial number means it's a '64 Fender replica. If it's the spaghetti logo it probably dates from the late 70's/early 80's. Is it a Goldstar Sound or a Springy Sound? I own a Tele replica also with the L serial number and the spaghetti logo, I've also owned a 1985 Goldstar Sound '64 replica with the L serial number.

Michael
Sweden

[lyall]

cheers for the reply,
it's a goldstar sound, and say's 'quality instruments from around the world' underneath, it's not a spaghetti logo, but it's a definite 'T' on tokai rather than the backwards 'F' like fenders. (check out the goldstar picfrom mark moolhuizen on the 'pictures' page).

[javelin70]

It seems to be almost identical to the TST-50 I bought new in '85 except for the color which was white. I really regret selling it. I now have a late 80's Tokai strat off white/maple neck. It used to have Tokai's modified headstock although somebody has modified it to look like the real thing again (the rounded part is a little smaller). I love this guitar, even though it's one of the cheaper japanese models it sounds great acoustically which is a good start. I have put a SD Little '59 in the bridge position and a SD Hot Stack in the middle.

Michael

[luis]

Michael,my AST-56 has got a L serial number and I don,t feel it as a 60,s model.Are sure about your statement from above?

[javelin70]

Luis,

I'm really not sure about the numbering, nobody seems to be. Anyway, the -85 TST-50 strat I had was a 1964 replica with a rosewood fingerboard and the L serial number is correct for a -64 Fender strat. The TTE-50 Tokai tele I have is also a 1964 replica with the L serial number. The traditional series catalog from 84-85 mentions what year the replicas are supposed to be but only for the TST and TTE models, not the AST's. Maybe Tokai used the L serial for other guitars as well. If your AST-56 has a rosewood fingerboard it might be correct, Fender used the L serial number for guitars made between 1963 and 1965. If it's a 50's replica however the guitar should have a serial no. consisting of up to 5 digits (no letter before number) depending on the year of manufacture. For example 1957 10000-20000.

Michael

[luis]

Michael,my ast-56 got all maple neck.Serial number L30603,skunk stripe,cream colur(like Hendrix famous strat),soft V neck-very bright sound-got a lot of twang-.Bought in japanese market.The salesman told me this was a ast-65 model,but it was a 56 really.

[javelin70]

Well, the serial number would date it as a 1964 replica - same as the TST-50 strat I had. The serial number on the TTE-50 I currently own would actually date it as a '63 model (L05xxx) but the traditional series catalog dates the TTE-50 with rosewood fingerboard as a '64 replica. However this guitar is older (probably late '70s/early '80s) with a spaghetti logo and and might be a '63 replica. I can't verify this since I do not have any older catalogs

I thought Fender only manufactured guitars with rosewood fingerboards in the early sixties but I might be wrong. The TST-50's with a one piece maple neck shown in the traditional series catalog are supposed to be '58 strat replicas. All sixties replicas mentioned ('60 TST-80, '64 TST-50 and TST-60) have rosewood fingerboards whereas the 50's replicas have one piece maple necks ('58 TST-50, '54 TST-60 and TST-80). Is it possible that your guitar might have been modified at some time? Was it new when you bought it?

[luis]

It was used,but in very good condition.The neck was in inmaculated condition.There is no evidence about any change.
I said the neck is V soft as it is a little difficult bending E string.Great for chords.

[Peter Mac]

Hi luis,
actually, both you and javelin70 are kinda right....
The AST-56 is a copy of a '56 Strat. It should have the maple V-neck but the serial # should be a 5 digit with no "L".
Tokai also released the AST-62 with a rosewood neck and "U" shape with an "L" serial#. These models were for U.S. market and released sometime around 1983-84. They had a re-shaped headstock compared to the TST series that was released to the rest of the world.
Whilst the serial# does sound strange, check with other owners of AST-56 at the registry and see what their serial#'s are, it could be that all AST-56 and AST-62 had "L" numbers.

regards
Peter

[javelin70]

It seems almost impossible to date a Tokai guitar. Since I own two Tokai's I bought new it's possible to draw some conclusions, for example my Love Rock TLS-50 gold top bought in '84 has serial 401xxxx. This could mean that the first digit is the year of manufacture since it's the only 4 in the number. However the serial no. on my JSX-70 super edition ends with a 6 (21xxx6) which ought to be year of manufacture since that's when I bought it. Looking at my late 80's goldstar sound strat (21xxx9) this would mean it was made in '89 which seems possible (bought it used last year). It's probably an AST-40 since it has el cheapo tuners, not the kluson type. Otherwise the guitar is of the same quality you'd expect from Tokai. I will check the serial on my MAT strat as well, I know it was made in '85 since they changed the models in '86. However it seems to be a prototype so it might be manufactured earlier than the production guitars. I didn't see the serial no. on it at first, it was stamped onto the tremolo cover.

[Peter Mac]

Hi javelin70,
they are difficult to date for 2 reasons:
1) they were originally just accepted as replicas
2) all the records from the factory and importers are not available

I owned 2 Love Rocks, both with 40xxxxx serial# that would have been around the 1984 mark and my 1982 TST80 springy sound has a 20xx number.
I am trying to find a pattern to get as close as possible to the original dates of manufacture. Fender replicas are a little easier because of the headstock and logo changes but the Gibson replicas are still largely a mystery.
The "original" Tokais (MAT,Talbos,Graphtech) may hold the clues to cracking the secret as I believe these models had sequential year numbering.
regards
Peter

[luis]

Thanks both Peter and Michael for your answers.
My ast-56 loos like a fender custom shop 56 picture I am seeing.The same body colour(cream like Hendrix strat) and the same look.not the same price of course and not the same quality I suppose.

[javelin70]

Luis, most Tokai's are as good or better than the originals. I bought my first Tokai (the Love Rock -84) simply because it was better than any Les Paul I tried. I've owned an original 1964 Fender tele but in fact the Tokai Breezysound tele I now have is a better instrument. I wouldn't trade my Tokai strat for a Fender either, it's a great guitar that have one of the nicest necks I've ever played on. The tone and sustain is also excellent. I've sent a picture of it to Ned but it never showed up in the gallery, I think I'll have to send the picture again.

Peter Mac,

It looks like many Tokai's have the six digit number beginning with 2xxxxx, for example my late 80's strat and my 1986 JSX-70. The last digit however seems to be the same as the year of manufacture. I will check my MAT later today and let you know what I find.

Michael