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Tokai vs Edwards
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Anung Un Rama
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Tokai vs Edwards Reply with quote

Hi!

I'm looking for a Les Paul custom, and my 2 candidates are:

- Tokai LC85S (now LC95S)
- Edwards E-LP-92CD

Both are Gibson Les Paul Custom copies, japan made, mahogany body&neck,
BUT in the case of the edwards, it has also ebony fingerboard, long tenon set neck, Seymour duncan pickups, gotoh tuners... and my question is: why the tokai is more expensive? Just for being a TOKAI?
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TOKAI JOE
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i guess because that that tokai is fully well made in japan but the edwards is made in china mostly. all the edwards are fully assembled
in japan with good parts and fine craftmanship but the body and neck
are made in china. this is nothing bad today ofcourse just that ESP can
make them so much cheaper over there thats all. i think tokai custom is
very handsome and edwards custom is super groovy and fun.............
both are no doubt too good for that price range so you just try to decide
which is better for you. feels closer to yourself......feels good.............
try to really test play them both before you buy if you could. see them
feel them closely...........hav a good one!..........................tokai joe



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sneakyjapan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that rumor again eh...is it China or Korea...I`ve read both.
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leadguitar_323
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its China...No rumour sneaky ....its a fact..

Mick
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sneakyjapan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

has anybody come up with any proof yet?...I mean other than Wikipedia, possibly the worst place for info.
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leadguitar_323
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listen i'm not going into this again i know i'm right and have done my homework...you are in japan its a hell of a lot easier for you to get info than me, if its so critical to know just start asking questions...

I believe my Japanese contacts and all have confirmed this and 2 of them are dealers of ESP and Edwards....Also Tokai Joe knows his stuff so maybe he will help you...

Mick
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Anung Un Rama
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

leadguitar_323 wrote:
Its China...No rumour sneaky ....its a fact..

Mick


Any proof? Never heard of it
I live in Spain and here is almost impossible to try a japanese tokai and totally impossible an edwards. The only thing I can do is read reviews and IMAGINE which is the best. Because of that I ask you, to get some answers and make my decission more "inteligent"
For me is important the wood quality (for the TONE an SUSTAIN) and the good assembly for not having problems with fret buzz or something worst
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sneakyjapan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

leadguitar_323 wrote:
Listen i'm not going into this again i know i'm right and have done my homework...you are in japan its a hell of a lot easier for you to get info than me, if its so critical to know just start asking questions...

I believe my Japanese contacts and all have confirmed this and 2 of them are dealers of ESP and Edwards....Also Tokai Joe knows his stuff so maybe he will help you...

Mick


So...no proof yet right? Not intending to stir things up but just because something is written on the web doesn`t make it so. I certainly would be happy to get the real truth on the subject but over here...that may be impossible. As I said before I did ask the staff at the Rock Inn who told me they contacted ESP and was told no. So understand...I get a no from people in Japan, you got a yes from somebody else... not only conflicting answers but opposite, and as I said I read the same thing about the parts being made in Korea...thats why to me it`s still rumor. No disrespect intended.
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leadguitar_323
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi sneaky, mate Togps offered no proof about the Canadian Tokai's so i went looking and found everything i needed to know about them, and Togps was right all i wanted was proof and i got it. Try doing the same as this is becoming common knowledge now and if i could get hold of some paperwork to confirm it i would { And maybe i will }. Send Tokai joe a PM and ask him to get some for you, And my info is not from the web it is from 4 different sources of which 2 are dealers so if you don't believe me prove me wrong Mate... No disrespect taken

Mick
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sneakyjapan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn`t start the rumor it should be up to those who did to offer some kind of proof, not for skeptics to prove it wrong. 4 sources or 400, until there is some kind of irrefutable proof, it remains in doubt... I wouldn`t call it common knowledge as the rumor is still being debated. Who is Tokyo Joe? Is he Japanese? Or a foreigner living in Japan? I`ve never met him why would his word be more credible to me than what I`ve been told by other Japanese people? From where I sitting behind this keyboard, it`s just another story on the web. Even at this site, with so many people who believe they know a lot, things get debated, and proved incorrect or all the time... not to mention the oddities that frequently pop up that had never been seen before....happens to me all the time here. I`d only want to believe the Edwards truth...if somebody would be kind enough to pointy me in it`s general direction I`d be grateful. Do you think just because I`m in Japan I`ll be told the truth? I`ve never been in a culture so shrouded in secrecy, which is why after nearly 15 years , I wouldn`t take anything I hear here as gospel. I used to be one of those westerners who thought all Japanese were an honest, reliable gentle...add any adjectives you`ve heard before... people, and it took me years to slowly figure out it just isn`t so...no different from any other culture...you got your good folks you got your rotten eggs.
Maybe Michael Moore should take up the Edwards cause.


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Skybone
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Both are Gibson Les Paul Custom copies, japan made, mahogany body&neck,
BUT in the case of the edwards, it has also ebony fingerboard, long tenon set neck, Seymour duncan pickups, gotoh tuners... and my question is: why the tokai is more expensive? Just for being a TOKAI?


I'm amazed no one has picked up on this one...

Tokai Love Rock's have long tenon neck joints, and Gotoh hardware (including their great PAF's). OK, so they use rosewood boards and have maple tops instead of mahogany... Hey ho.

IMO FWIW Seymour Duncan pickups are highly overrated...
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sneakyjapan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edwards have the long tenons too...which in itself may be overrated...I got an old Burny 2 weeks ago that does not have the same extended tenon as some of my other Les Paul types, including my 2 Edwards from the Duncan series, but to these unrefined ears the Burny sounds frickin great... not sure who`s making the Edwards hardware but it doesn`t appear, to me anyways, to be cheap in terms of quality. Pick-ups are a matter of personal choice...overrated to some but possibly not to others.
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TOKAI JOE
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yo sneaky its me tokai joe from yokohama again....hows morioka today? anyways heres that subject again and you are very stubborn about it. i got a request from mick so fxxk i just called ESP CUSTOM SHOP tokyo
again and talked with 2 guys. one was just a typical young ESP shop dude
and to my question japan made or china he just briefly answered that its
all made in japan. i knew its a BS so i asked him to get me a senior salesman there who has to tell the truth if i was a real good honest sincere customer and me being so we just talked honestly together since i am from the japan music industry. he told me these clearly today so unless whatever dont never ask us again about it. i dont call them up no more. he said that all the edwards are fully assembled in japan with good japanese parts but the body and neck are made in china somewhere. he says that ESP has the factory in china too. if the product is more than 60% made in japan then they can say on the guitars "made in japan". if less than 60% then no they cant say so. edwords are very popular now and ESPs proud brand so if they are all made in japan they sure say so clearly on the guitars. people still like made in japan but not made in china so far right? when it comes to the expensive stuff? so i just beleive what those senior ESP guys told me not those young shop dudes. you are living in morioka correct? there is a rockinn store there right? very small maybe the second floor of some small building? about maybe 20 to 30 gtrs total from cheap to good? i think i know your store cause i have been there in 1998. i went in and saw all and talked with the guys there. rockinn is good but is it just a common sense that big store salesman always dont know much and even lie/BS often? in japan in usa rockinn guitar center all the same too often. r u really believing everything what they tell you all the time? especially when you are a foreigner speaking english or some japanese only and when they dont talk no english almost being so tensioned to you? plus there is a honne and tatemae stuff you know that too right? so dont know how long you have been in japan but if its long enough then maybe by now you should know its hard to get the clear info in japan without good japanese skill and much more.........you know sometimes or actually often its like "you know where you are? you are in japan baby..... you are gonna be lied!!!!!!!!!"...........welcome to the jungle by GNR..................
anyways sneaky.........this was my story today and i think we me and mick
and those senior ESP guys are right. i dont talk about this anymore so sorry if i dont post anymore. i was/still am busy today actually.............
have good everyday in morioka they are very beautiful city.............
later man..........................................................................j

 
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sneakyjapan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I`m not in Morioka, went through there once on my way to Aomori... no idea about the shops in the city so I can`t answer to that.
I talked to both a salesman I had a very good relationship with...you know, one of the guys who didn`t flee from me when I entered the shop, and the manager of the shop...who I`ve known for 12 years. I spoke to the manager first and he passed me on to the other guy...he was very busy.
If you`d have read my post Joe you`d have seen how long I`ve been in Japan and as I said here and many times before on this site as well as others, I never know when I`m getting a bit of the truth, some of the truth, most of the truth or none of the truth...no need to explain honne and tatemae...well acquainted with them so I won`t go through all that again...and I don`t believe everything I read on line either. If you want to use the term stubborn, thats OK...I understand the translation thing, but again, unless somebody can come up with more than what has been written so far on the topic I am going to continue to be skeptical about it. Like I said before, please read my posts here and in other threads we`ve had on this and you may find there are other folks who would like to have something more definitive than what we have up to now.
After so many years here I, in fact , believe very little of what I`m told anymore...so I`m not saying what I heard about the Edwards/China/Korea connection is true, nor am I convinced what I`ve read to this point is irrefutable evidence that it isn`t.
Maybe I shoulda been a lawyer.
I bet the Morioka Rock Inn has changed a little since the last time you visited 10 years ago.
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Anung Un Rama
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that is correct I prefer to eliminate edwards of the equation.

Then, my doubt is the following:

LC95s has no long tenon, no lacquered finish, no aluminium tailpiece & brass saddle bridge, and the next step in this model is the LC195S which is perfect (full equipped) but expensive.
In the standard models, I got the LS135F which is almost like the LC195S at less cost, except the CTS & Switchcraft electronics and... of course! is not a Custom!
I like it much, and it has no pickguard (more beautiful for me) but don't know if choose this one for its better construction and hardware or buy the LC95S with its lacks because I can't afford a LC195S
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