Six digit SN on Love Rock

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Hi Bobb, mate no probability at all any more its a fact.. :p I was sure that these guitars weren't fakes and so i did a lot of research behind the scenes with a couple of other forum members and with Tokai themselves to find out as much as possible and ended up finding everything even though it proved me wrong.. Now i'm no expert on "fakes" but i think the pic you have posted is one of the Canadian market fakes and if i'm right the giveaway is the "made under license" sticker on the back of the headstockStick around and i'm sure someone will confirm it for you. :wink:

Mick
 
Gee, so I guess that I am one of the many who are stuck with a "fake" that is spec'ed better and plays better than the original model( ALS-48 ). I guess I can suffer with that. :wink:
 
Here"s my story. I purchased a Tokai Strat that was assembled in Toronto Canada by Active Music in late 2003. The guitar is made up of parts from the USA (electronics) and the neck and body were products from Japan. Active took the initiative of assembling 25 only Strats. They employed an Ex Tokai luthier from Japan to do the setups. This guitar has no serial numbers on it. No country of origin either, but I have had the neck off and there is the number "24" on the body under where the neck mounts. These 25 guitars were distributed in 2005.
 
Here's my story. I purchased a Tokai Strat that was assembled in Toronto Canada by Active Music in late 2003. The guitar is made up of parts from the USA (electronics) and the neck and body were products from Japan. Active took the initiative of assembling 25 only Strats. They employed an Ex Tokai luthier from Japan to do the setups. This guitar has no serial numbers on it. No country of origin either, but I have had the neck off and there is the number "24" on the body under where the neck mounts. These 25 guitars were distributed in 2005. I was also told that this guitar was built with the same specifications that Stevie Ray Vaughan was to endorse before his death. Does anyone out there have any other information on these guitars? The name of the luthier? Were they only Strats made? Anyone out there that may have one of these?
 
Canadian, US, Japanese, and Korean law are the same on this point: if a trademark is used without permission (i.e., license), the product bearing the unlicensed mark is a fake, no matter how well it is made. The product seller's goal to is trade on the reputation of the trademark and to deceive the buyer.
 
Another thread of interest about the "activities" of Active Musical Products.

Godlyke said:
... No authentic Tokai?s have been imported into Canada since 2004. There have been counterfeit Tokai?s shipped into Canada from Korea and China before and after 2004. ...
Click to expand...

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6551
 
leadguitar_323 said:
Hi all, Well, I also received that exact story today, this time from japan.

Quote...... mick this is the reply from tokai today..................a shocking truth here............................

it says............................................

WE STOPPED DEALING WITH ACTIVE MUSICAL PRODUCTS LTD BECAUSE THEY MADE TOKAI GUITARS
IN KOREA WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION...............................................................................................

So thats it, active musical products were the Tokai distributor but it looks like they did a deal with the factory
in korea that was making the "korean models" and decided they wanted different materials and models and
went ahead and ordered them without knowledge of the Tokai company, so in a way they are fakes and in
a way they are not. They still would be reasonably good guitars seeing as they came out of the same factory.
I think they have a mahogany body and maple neck. I would call them "unautherised Tokai's" Maybe?

Interesting i suppose, and i'm glad i have finally found out what went on with these guitars.
My sources in japan are ultra reliable , i have quite a few good contacts in japan {hence all of my guitars !!} so i think i can finally put
this episode to bed.
So yes Togps you were right i suppose but what i was after is why you called these "fakes" not once did you offer evidence so i was on a mission to find out exactly what went on. I never questioned your credibility, just the lack of evidence, it was solid proof i was after and finally i have it.
As far as JSD and the other shops that sold these they weren't to know. The Canadian distributor is very hard to get in contact with has no website and no email, but after some good detective work by a few interested forum members we can finally lay the Canadian Tokai story to bed.

Cheers all
Mick

Cheers Mick
Click to expand...
Ahhhh...Soooo...it's a Ronin-kai...no master eh?
So in short...made in the Korean factory that produced the MiK legit Tokai...but Tokai has dis-owned the custom order Canada market Tokai's.
That actually makes way more sense than the out and out fakai stories.
So Togps is absolutely well within his right to claim that these candian mik custom orders are NOT Tokai....but are the poor bastards buying them within their rights to claim that they own a Tokai?
Technically they CANNOT state that their guitar was "made by Tokai"...because Tokai had no prior knowledge that they had EVER been produced..
The best that they can say is that these guitars were "made in the same factory as the MiK Tokai's"
End of story hopefully.
Excellent dirt digging Mick 8)
 
Ozeshin said:
leadguitar_323 said:
... but it looks like they did a deal with the factory in korea that was making the "korean models"
Click to expand...

...made in the Korean factory that produced the MiK legit Tokai..
Click to expand...

????? :roll:

Ozeshin, Mick didn't say they were made in the same factory, he speculated that they may be, but other posts point to a different contractor.
 
No...I'm pretty sure the deal was an "under the counter one" done with the former Canadian distributor and the Korean Contractor.
Makes more sense that the distributor would have been approached by someone at the MiK factory rather than seeking out an alternative contractor on their own.....if anyone knows who was to blame for the Limbo-kai's I'd love to know....was it the distributor acting on thier own?....or were they approached by another Korean contractor?....or was it someone within the legit Korean factory?
If they WERE made by a different contractor then they're out and out fakes plain and simple.
 
Hi Oze, I think they were made in a different factory because there,s a few things that don't add up. the control cavity is off centre compared to typical "Korean" models, putting the tone and volume knobs in a different position. The headstock logo is in a different position and looks different and so on.
They seem to be as well built as i have found reviews of these guitars on other sites, but the bottom line is, "these guitars are unauthorized so they are FAKE.... :wink: :p :p

Mick
 
Ozeshin said:
If they WERE made by a different contractor then they're out and out fakes plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Any factory with a three-axis CNC milling machine could make the guitars. Google "three-axis CNC milling machine guitar". Bodies, necks, just scan in what you want to make, process the scan output to your Fanuc or other three-axis CNC milling machine, buy the pups, knobs, etc. Assemble and ship.

The reason I think a third party did the fake Tokais is that the electrical components are wired point to point, no printed cicruit board (PCB). The PCB in real Tokais would be easy enough to fabricate, even in prototype volumes... but you've got to know that field. If Tokai's contractor in Korea were doing the AMP clones on the side, and used inventory in the plant, they would have used the PCBs as well. Therefore, some company with milling machines, say one building acoustic guitars who had good inlay resources but who didn't want to deal with PCBs, scans in a Love Rock, a Strat, etc. and out the other end come AMP clones.

togps said:
... It is not the same factory. (I know the owner ..)
Click to expand...

Note the direct personal knowledge of togps that Tokai's contractor in Korea was not involved in the AMP clones.

From data to date, the 6 digit SN Love Rocks are total fakes.
 

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