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Greco MIJ vs MIK

 
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PoorMan
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Joined: 22 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Greco MIJ vs MIK Reply with quote

I've owned Tokai, Orville, Burny...but never Greco. I'm sure this has been asked a million times but...

Are there MIK Grecos, If so, how do you ID MIJ vs MIK?

Thanks!
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=56804#56804
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PoorMan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!

So just to confirm (sorry, I got burned on an Orville once and don't want to go trough that again) openbook headstock, no shielding paint and a serial number in gold is definitely MIJ?
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the openbook headstock Grecos with serial numbers are MIJ.
The openbook headstock Grecos with no serial number and no shielding paint in the pickup and control cavities are also MIJ (some have fret edge binding and are high end models).
The openbook headstock Grecos with no serial number and shielding paint in the pickup and control cavities are made by Cort in Korea.
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sarge40
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

japanstrat,

Have you ever seen an open book headstock, no serial number Greco with fretedge binding, no shielding paint in the pickup routs (which aren't the straight cut routs like the MIK but the more curvy ones), but has shielding paint only in the control cavity? Its also got a nut that is rounded on the top side towards the tuners (doesn't look like a "brick"). Doesn't have a long tenon, but it is visible in the pup cavity (like a medium tenon).
Thanks,
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe someone did the control cavity shielding paint themselves.
It's obviously a MIJ no serial Greco though.
The MIK no serial Grecos are so different, they are easy to ID.
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sarge40
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks JS. Thats what I was thinking too.
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20 century boy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.guitarsjapan.com/1987_Greco_FB-80_1963_Reverse_Firebird_Replica.html

what do you think about this one? MIJ or MIK?
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do they know it's from 87 when there doesn't seem to be a serial number.
You would really need to compare it (inside and out) to a serial numbered Greco Firebird from around the same period (late 80s/early 90s) to see if it's features are roughly the same.
At that time (late 80s/early 90s) but not now, the Koreans had a certain way of building most guitars that was different to the Japanese way at that time.
Around the (late 80s/early 90s) in Korea it was a bit similar to the early mid 70s in Japan where they don't get the copying details of the guitars quite right.
In a interview with Jim Donahue he says that the Japanese guitar makers were all mostly players as well, but the Korean guitar makers were not as the South Korean goverment banned heavy metal and bands were not encouraged too much (in the late 80s/early 90s) and the guitar makers didn't quite understand guitar making because not being players they didn't really know what to improve, they just sort of churned them out of the factories which shows in a lot of those late 80s Korean guitars plus they used cost cutting techniques like plywood bodies in Samick and Cort made Fenders and odd pieces of wood making up bits of LP necks etc.
They could make some guitars ok like the Samick Epiphone Sheratons but even they are pretty different from the Terada ones from the same late 80s/early 90s years.
Just when the Koreans were getting it together around the mid 90s a lot of guitar making moved to China.
I've got a Chinese Squier and I would play it in public.
It's got a good strat tone and so I couldn't give a ???? what anyone thought.
As I type this I've got a Chinese Squier and a early 70s Gibson SG in front of me and I'm mostly playing the Chinese Squier.
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20 century boy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inside ( I had one from this serie): there is those red and green wire like often on the late Greco and no brand 24 mm pots. The P.U. seem to be the same as the one on the early Greco Firebirds.

Quote:
How do they know it's from 87 when there doesn't seem to be a serial number.


Maybe he has some catalogs, or it's the same source as the korean Orville stuff.

I had a serial numbered MIJ greco to compare side to side, I would say those are MIJ because the finish feels like polyurethane, not polyester, almost sure it's polyurethane. But I'm no specialist.
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you put a late 80s/early 90s serial numbered or no serial low end Japanese Greco side by side with a no serial number low end Korean Greco then the differences are self evident.
The Korean pickup routing is different, the shielding paint in the pickup and control cavities are different, the carved top has a different shape, some of the pots have Cor-Tek (Cort) on them, the necks sometimes have multipiece scarfed headstocks especially on the SG's, the general look is different, their headstock design and shape is different and if a no serial Greco has these features than it's from Cort whether it has Cor-Tek pots or not because the Korean Greco LPs and SG's all look the same and have the same features.
The Cor-Tek pots just show where they are from, Cort.
If you want to know where a no serial Greco Firebird is from then you would have to do a similar comparison.

If you put a late 80s/early 90s low end G serial OBG side by side with a K Orville there are really no differences besides the nitro finish and maybe better wood selection for the G serial OBG and some other things like the 3 piece tops on some K Orvilles.
If the K Orvilles had the same sort of differences to the G serial OBG's like the Korean Grecos do in regards to the Japanese Grecos then the K Orvilles would more than likely be Korean but the K Orvilles don't.
The K Orvilles have the same routing as the G serial OBG's, they have the same mixture of tenon length, long, medium long and medium, they have the same non scarfed headstocks, the carved tops look the same, they have the same pots, they have the same headstock designs and shapes.
Just because some K Orvilles have 3 piece tops is not a big difference, it's just a money saver to reuse maple bits that would be thrown away.
The SG's are the best to compare for the G serial OBG's and K Orvilles because they are simpler and anyone who has seen a K Orville SG and G serial OBG side by side would be hard pressed to tell any differences between them besides the nitro finish and pickups.
So the K Orvilles don't have very different features from the G serial OBG's so they are Japanese.
There are just too many similarities between the K Orvilles and G serial OBG's for them to be from different factories.
The G serial number OBG's and the no G serial OBG's show differences in the headstock designs and shapes as well as other things and that's because the G serial OBG's are from Terada and the no G serial OBG's are from FujiGen and the differences are quite apparent.
There are other differences as well like FujiGen didn't make Orvilles with 3 piece tops but did make those low end photo flame Orvilles.
A guitar from a Korean factory in the late 80s/early 90s can't help but be different in some features to a guitar from a Japanese factory in the late 80s/early 90s especially if the guitar is the same brand and same sort of model.
Just comparing them will show the differences.
So if the K Orvilles didn't match the G serial OBG's but had features like the Cort Grecos for instance than they would be Korean.
Just because a guitar is Japanese doesn't mean that it can't be a pile of crap and vice versa just because a guitar is Korean doesn't mean that it can't be a great guitar.
The no serial Grecos that don't have the Cort features listed above have features in common with the Japanese serial numbered Grecos like the same routing, same pots, same carved top shapes etc so these no serial Grecos are not from Cort but from a Japanese maker.
They have too many similarities with the Japanese serial numbered Grecos for them not to be Japanese.
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