Navigator LP pictures and info.

deoreo · May 17, 2007

Well, I thought I'd put this out there for reference to help others.

I've been looking for a high quality MIJ LP clone and the Navigator guitars have always intrigued me. All of the information I could find on the net (in english) is very positive, and claim that they all have solid tops.

With that in mind, I decided to go for this guitar:

From ebay: (re-listed correctly here)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230131069366&rd=1&rd=1

Well, long story, short - the flame top is a laminated veneer. It was easy to see as the maple cap has an offset seam.

The seller was very easy to work with and offered a refund.

Another small problem I noticed about this guitar, is that one bridge post has been relocated slightly, and the old hole dowel-filled:

I'm not trying to down-talk this guitar, overall, I thought it was really cool, with a real '59, '60 vibe to it. The top is very pretty, but it is a veneer.

As I said, I wanted to put the pics. out there for reference, hopefully we can get some other Navigator interior pictures.

tudor · May 17, 2007

Thanks alot ... very instructive pics ... never have had this insight in a Navigator before ...

... and never realized that they are also using laminated maple caps !!!

What model is it actually ????

Roger

deoreo · May 17, 2007

tudor said:
What model is it actually ????

Roger

Not sure really, there were no serial, or I.D. numbers anywhere on the body, headstock, or wood of the guitar.
The only numbers were on the parts like the pots and pick-ups.

I've also never seen any early Navigator catalogs.

So I guess you have to figure out the model through all the little details about the guitar, and hope they are original. - all part of the fun I suppose

MIJvintage · May 17, 2007

I really don't understand how someone could confuse a laminate with a solid top, or vice versa, that just really goes right over the top, in my book

removal of a pickup will insure that any unknown, becomes know, in regard to laminate versus solid

the repositioned bridge post will effect intonation, and I don't recall reading about that in the original listing

I'm glad you pointed out these 'issues'

deoreo · May 17, 2007

MIJvintage said:
the repositioned bridge post will effect intonation, and I don't recall reading about that in the original listing

Yep, not in the original listing, and when I saw it I was like

But, in all honesty, it may have been done to correct a problem with intonation. As it is right now, intonation is good, the nut slots are a bit worn, with that corrected, I'm sure it could have an excellent set-up and playability.

I actually offered to purchase the guitar for a much reduced price, more in line with the top and problems, but the seller said to ship it back for a refund.

benrod · May 17, 2007

i live right buy this guy( chicago area) - i offered to buy it outside of ebay $1050. it was all set- i was going to meet him , to pick it up tonight, then he called and said someone placed a bid on it. do you guys think its worth the $1050 ? i did not know about the bridge being moved !

Ducati · May 17, 2007

Are you sure it's not just a finish chip by the bridge post? Doesn't look completely like a dowel from the pics - but you have held it in your hands.

deoreo · May 18, 2007

benrod - for reference I offered $650 for it. Personally, I think $1000 for it is steep - but that's just me.

Ducati - sure looked like one as it is perfectly round, and not an irregular break thru the finish. The top of it also slightly stands above the finish of the top.

JohnA · May 18, 2007

deoreo said:
benrod - for reference I offered $650 for it. Personally, I think $1000 for it is steep - but that's just me.

Ducati - sure looked like one as it is perfectly round, and not an irregular break thru the finish. The top of it also slightly stands above the finish of the top.

Makes a refreshing change for someone to be so open about things, there is a lot of secrecy, especially on this forum about what people pay for guitars.

I think at $650 it would have been a bargain, $1000 in my view seems a fair price for a hand-built LP.

deoreo · May 18, 2007

JohnA said:
I think at $650 it would have been a bargain, $1000 in my view seems a fair price for a hand-built LP.

Hehe - yep, everyone has their reasons for what they will pay for a guitar.
I figured at $650 to $750 I would have it Plek'ed and pro set-up by Phil at Philtone Guitar Co. and have a stunning looking gig-able guitar. But, to me, at $1000 it's not worth it as a collectable guitar.

Just my opinion based on my wants and needs, YMMV...etc...etc...yadda...yadda :wink:

Ducati · May 18, 2007

deoreo said:
Hehe - yep, everyone has their reasons for what they will pay for a guitar. I figured at $650 to $750 I would have it Plek'ed and pro set-up by Phil at Philtone Guitar Co. and have a stunning looking gig-able guitar. But, to me, at $1000 it's not worth it as a collectable guitar.

I kind of agree with you. With the possible bridge issue, somewhere around the $600-700 mark sounds fair. I think the relatively unknown nameplate reduces the value a good bit. However, it's a real nice looking guitar, and the case looks quite similar to the Tokai ones.

What would be the equivalent Tokai model here? LS-80? LS-120? Looks like fret edge binding on there as well.

deoreo · May 18, 2007

Ducati said:
What would be the equivalent Tokai model here? LS-80? LS-120? Looks like fret edge binding on there as well.

Now that's the million dollar question, and a can of worms

The reason I say that is because I thought the LS-120 had a flame veneer, and others say that it has a solid flame maple cap. - and I am no expert on all things MIJ :wink:

The Navigator does have fret edge binding, however it is worn somewhat further up the neck (going towards the nut.)

metalheadUK · May 18, 2007

Forgive my ignorance, but is this a typical Navigator?

What makes this better than my Edwards ESP - E-LP-90LT?

Genuine question...my Edwards is so nice that I was wondering what I might gain with a Navigator...I was thinking a solid cap and maybe other benefits, but if the Navigators have a laminate flame top, I'm struggling to see much difference.

Anyone here who can compare the 2?

Thanks.

tudor · May 18, 2007

Ducati said:
deoreo said:

What would be the equivalent Tokai model here? LS-80? LS-120? Looks like fret edge binding on there as well.

Click to expand...

If they have used the Honduran mahogany for the 1p (?) neck and the obviously 1p back and Brazilian rosewood for the fretboard (it looks like having a tight grain - like ebony) - most descriptions tell these specs - it might be an extraordinary guitar ... 8)

The top-of-the-notch Tokais only have these woods ... or perhaps the early high grade models and Reborns ... not to compare with nowadays models in the lower price range ...

metalheadUK ... your question is actually entitled ... except if you're considering the used wood too ... 8)
I also have an Edwards 90LTS ... and if my assumption concerning the used wood on the Navi isn't correct ... it will enhance my credit to the Edwards guys tremendously !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Roger

deoreo · May 18, 2007

tudor said:
If they have used the Honduran mahogany for the 1p (?) neck and the obviously 1p back and Brazilian rosewood for the fretboard (it looks like having a tight grain - like ebony) - most descriptions tell these specs

The Navigator we are talking about here has a 2 piece back.
The neck is 1 piece, but the tip of the heel is a separate piece of wood, and the usual "wings" on the side of the headstock, are separate also.

metalheadUK - your Edwards is a fantastic guitar.
The biggest difference between it and higher end stuff is typically the quality of the wood, and the finish details of the guitar. Hard to explain but if you had the Edwards right next to a Navigator N-LP-380LTD or N-LP-700LTD or a Tokai LS320 or LS380 it would be apparent :wink:

The Navigator here interested me, because I like older guitars, and it being from 1981 makes it over 25 years old. This is just a personal preference, I've played and owned killer new and used instruments, but in the end, I tend to prefer the "aged" stuff

villager · May 19, 2007

all the navigators I have from 1979-1983 are solid flametops and one piece backs, nitro finish and fret binding, with the long tenon...

there were a few different models available, and dating by the pots is not reliable, as its common to have other pots in a gutar...I think thats a later navigator, after edwards bought them and expanded the model range...all the pre 1983 navigators I have seen are the above specs...

for the LS-120 ..there are SOME laminate tops, but most pre 1983 are solid topped...

of the 40 odd I have had 3 were laminate topped...a reborn 1980, and 2 reborn olds from 1980...I have not seen a laminate topped 120 from any other year...but that doesnt mean they are not there....after 1982 there were many lam topped tokais...

Ducati · May 19, 2007

deoreo said:
The Navigator we are talking about here has a 2 piece back. The neck is 1 piece, but the tip of the heel is a separate piece of wood, and the usual "wings" on the side of the headstock, are separate also.

So, an interesting (and confusing) mix of high and low features.

Guitargoblin · May 21, 2007

Mine definitely has 1-pc back, solid flame maple top, nitro finish & long neck tenon. Looks like an ebony board too (smooth, dark, closed grain with some beige/orange streaks anyone?). It's a 1980

Deoreo's one must be later than what the seller claimed, or lower grade???

What's confusing is that modern Navigators are exclusively very high end, but the earlier Navs seem to include mid-level type guitars too, essentially the market section that Edwards occupies now.

My Nav is pre-ESP, vintage, high end with an aura of "rarity and exclusivity", but truth be told it doesn't see nearly as much use as my Edwards E-JR-95LT/RE, which responds far better to all my musical needs and only weighs about 3kg (6.6 lbs)

The Navi would probably break every bone in your foot if you dropped it!

Guitargoblin · May 21, 2007

However, with an Edwards, you MUST overhaul the electronics if you wish to get the most out of it. I can't stress that enough..

emilshayeb · May 21, 2007

Guitargoblin said:
However, with an Edwards, you MUST overhaul the electronics if you wish to get the most out of it. I can't stress that enough..

U sure? my jimmy page LP 125 (super circuit) seens to have good eletronics :roll:

Navigator LP pictures and info.

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