Nitro Vs Poly

I know this subject is an old, but still on going debate. I want to bring it back to the spot light for one more time.

Wats is the tonal difference between a nitro finish OBG and a poly finish Orville. Think like using the same electronics and hardware in both guitars(pickup, wiringbridge, stop tail, tuners). Lets just worry abt the wood now. Same wood, different finish.............Wat is the tone diffence?

Why are the sellers asking way too much price for OBG than orville?
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Amitron

in my opinion, NONE

it may matter on an acoustic, i can believe that... but on an electric...

you're full of it if you believe that.

Toneality shouldn't have anything to do with finishes. Asthetics and durability would be the only factors.

From what I understand, ObG do not use the same electronics as Orvilles. The wood materials were selected from the best pieces available and the finish is also a factor. Basically, the ObG are as close to Gibsons as possible while the Orvilles follow a more 'Epiphone route' (cheaper materials, etc) to recreating them.

bluebird007 said:

I know this subject is an old, but still on going debate. I want to bring it back to the spot light for one more time.

Wats is the tonal difference between a nitro finish OBG and a poly finish Orville. Think like using the same electronics and hardware in both guitars(pickup, wiringbridge, stop tail, tuners). Lets just worry abt the wood now. Same wood, different finish.............Wat is the tone diffence?

Why are the sellers asking way too much price for OBG than orville?

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I now have over 30 OBGs (here are a few.......) I've added about 10 more--another 335, EX and LPC, and several LPS and LPJRs since I took those pics, and don't worry, I'm not selling--they're all keepers!

I personally like nitro a lot better than poly but that's not the big difference between Orvilles and OBGs.

I did get an "Orville" (just 'Orville' not OBG) from a guy in Japan about a year or so ago. It was a tobacco-burst LPS that looked like Slash's signature model. Looks-wise and play-ability, it was a very nice guitar but sound and build-wise, materials and hardware it was not even in the same league as an OBG. I knew from the very first time I played it, I was going to sell it. Like I said, that Orville was a very nice guitar but there are very valid reasons why the OBGs cost more and they're a bargain at that compared with current U.S. Gibsons and especially ones from the same period.

there's absolutely no difference in tone between a Poly finish or a Nitro finish. The only thing that could influence a guitar e.g. in its resonance is how thick the finish is applied. A thick layer of Nitro is as bad for the 'tone' of your guitar as a a thick layer of Poly.
As batlord said, the only difference is durabilty and shinyness...

WOW Innadaze,
Tats alot of OBG. where did u buy all these from, directly from japan or ebay?

Am gonna ask one more thing inbetween. I know the yellow binding OBG customs are whole mahagony body. What is the tonal difference in a mahagony body/maple cap costom OBG and a whole Mahagony body obg custom? Seen the whole mahogony OBG are cheaper in price.
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Smoking Kills

well there will be a difference after the years go by, as the nitro allows the wood to continue ageing, and therefore changing its character and tone, a poly finish does not do this...

whether its an audible change is a hotly debated point..........

I have read and discussed that point several times with players, luthiers and the rest. So far, I have yet to find anyone that can provide anything to substantiate the claim and the vast majority, by my experience, say the result is negligible if perceptible in the least.

nitro feels nicer though ..especially when its aged a bit...

Am going to ask anothe question inbetween. I know the yellow binding OBG customs are whole mahagony body. What is the tonal difference in a mahagony body/maple cap costom OBG and a whole Mahagony body obg custom? Seen the whole mahogony OBG are cheaper in price
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Toyota team europe history

bluebird007 said:

WOW Innadaze,
Tats alot of OBG. where did u buy all these from, directly from japan or ebay?

Am gonna ask one more thing inbetween. I know the yellow binding OBG customs are whole mahagony body. What is the tonal difference in a mahagony body/maple cap costom OBG and a whole Mahagony body obg custom? Seen the whole mahogony OBG are cheaper in price.

Click to expand...

About my OBGs: My Dad's a retired Air force pilot and we were stationed at Yokota (in the wayback) when I was a kid. I bought an OBG LPS in '93 while visiting a friend who still lives there. I just thought it was a great LP for the $$. Who knew they were going to stop making them and they'd become collectible(?) I didn't buy another one until about 5 or six years ago when they started to show up on Ebay but I've gotten most of mine from little hole-in-the-wall guitar stores in Japan.

Actually, the first Japanese guitar I ever bought "new" was a flat-top Epiphone acoustic back in 1971. Everyone I knew back then always referred to Epiphones as "Japanese Gibsons" never really taking into consideration that Epiphone had been an American guitar maker for a jillion years. I still have that guitar and play it regularly although it's gotten a little beat up over the years.

Oh, and OBGs aren't my only MIJs....., and there's also a few Americans lying around the house as well.

A couple of other things: What Villager says about the nitro as a guitar gets older is my experience also and my black OBG LPC is all maho and I've played it out more than any of the other OBGs--if that tells you anything about the tone, i.e., (it's not to heavy and sounds good live!).

bluebird007 said:

What is the tonal difference in a mahagony body/maple cap costom OBG and a whole Mahagony body obg custom? Seen the whole mahogony OBG are cheaper in price

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The original Gibson LPCs (1954 - 1959) were made from mahogany only; neck, backs and tops inclusive. The vast majority were made this way although there have been some exceptions observed. Gibson started using maple in '68 I believe but used maple tops on other models as early as the first LPs were produced. They also started producing 'pancake' models in '69. Personally, I actually prefer the sound of these original guitars to those with maple caps and I believe that is what makes them sound better. Of course, that's just a personal preference but is a reason why I really love my ObG LPC which is as close to the original thing as possible.

Maple is very hard, heavy and dense which has the tonal quality of creating a very 'bright' sound while also increasing sustain. Mahogany, on the other hand, is very 'warm' and 'full' sounding while also has the property of creating good sustain. For reference, my ears define "warm" and "bright" qualities as the difference in sounds made by single coils versus humbuckers; Les Pauls and Strats or even a Gibson/Fender comparison. I much prefer Gibson's warmth over Fenders "bright" qualities. Of course, with the average LP using both, you get somewhat of a hybrid tone but more heavily on the mahogany side of things.


While quite brief and simplified, here is an informative and interesing site on Wood Descriptions.

Here is an interesting and extensive site on just about everything about Vintage Guitars including Gibson and Fenders.

R u telling that mahagony OBG sound darker and lighter in weight than maple/mahagony obg. So does it sound like SG coz they are made of whole mahogony and are light weigh. I have never heard a SG sound darker than a les paul.

Which one will u prefer if u have a choice to make whole mahagony OBG or a maple/mahagony OBG.
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Magic flight

I`m gonna go with the feel thing too....on the lacquer finished guitars I own, the necks actually feel like wood. Maybe my ears juat aren`t refined enough to hear a difference but I sure feel it.

bluebird007 said:

R u telling that mahagony OBG sound darker and lighter in weight than maple/mahagony obg. So does it sound like SG coz they are made of whole mahogony and are light weigh. I have never heard a SG sound darker than a les paul.

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I doubt I will be able to describe words like "dark" or "warm" and "bright" to you. You are going to have to listen for yourself. Les Pauls and SGs sound different regardless of design materials.

bluebird007 said:

Which one will u prefer if u have a choice to make whole mahagony OBG or a maple/mahagony OBG.

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The batlord said:

Personally, I actually prefer the sound of these original guitars to those with maple caps and I believe that is what makes them sound better.

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Schneidas said:

there's absolutely no difference in tone between a Poly finish or a Nitro finish. The only thing that could influence a guitar e.g. in its resonance is how thick the finish is applied. A thick layer of Nitro is as bad for the 'tone' of your guitar as a a thick layer of Poly.
As batlord said, the only difference is durabilty and shinyness...

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I think with new guitars that's the issue- how thick the finish is. When many companies started switching to poly in the late '60s/early '70s they were putting the finish on pretty thick, which I think is a big reason why poly get's a bad rap. There's also a difference in different poly- polyurethane, polyester, etc, and formulas of each.

But- one difference is nitro lacquer will countinue to shrink. A lot of these old guitars that seem to have paper thin finishes didn't start out that way. This can be both a good and bad thing- many don't like nitro because it will shrink and the finish will check as well as amber. But as far as "tone" I really dig an old nitro finish as they tend to be really thin- just remember that a good guitar is more than the sum of it's parts- no one factor (as in the finish, type of neck joint, electronics, etc) will make or break it- it's the way they add up. With new guitars I feel the choice of finish is a toss up.

The batlord said:

bluebird007 said:

R u telling that mahagony OBG sound darker and lighter in weight than maple/mahagony obg. So does it sound like SG coz they are made of whole mahogony and are light weigh. I have never heard a SG sound darker than a les paul.

Click to expand...

I doubt I will be able to describe words like "dark" or "warm" and "bright" to you. You are going to have to listen for yourself. Les Pauls and SGs sound different regardless of design materials.

bluebird007 said:

Which one will u prefer if u have a choice to make whole mahagony OBG or a maple/mahagony OBG.

Click to expand...

The batlord said:

Personally, I actually prefer the sound of these original guitars to those with maple caps and I believe that is what makes them sound better.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

So when the maple cap is added, guitar produces a mixed dark and bright tone. With just mahagony body, it produces the warm, dark tone, great for rock music. Is tat wat u r saying? How is the sustain and resonance on the mahagony body, compared to maple/mahogony. As per Gibson, they added the maple cap for more sustain

Which one would u buy if u have to pick from a USA custom shop Gibson and historic vintage black beauty custom.
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Volcano classic

an old tokai and an old greco.....

:evil: :evil:

i have an early 80's burny les paul custom with no maple cap, and a mid 80's burny les paul custom with the maple cap. the guitar with the maple cap has a bigger, fatter tone. the guitar without the maple cap is leading more towards a SG type of tone ( not exactly the same, but not as solid or big sounding as a standard mahogany/maple top les paul)

Of course the other major difference between Nitro and Poly is how they ware. Nitro can craze and crack if it changes temperature too quickly and it tends to wear through easily, showing the undercoats and ultimately bear wood, whereas poly dents and scratches if abused but it generally doesn't show the years of use as much. Of course a lot of people like their guitars to show the history of all those gigs. And just imagine if Rory Gallagher, Jimmy Page or Stevie Ray Vaughan's guitars had a poly finish.....