Amp Modelling

Area to discuss using your PC or 4-track for recording

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Post by LoveRocksRule » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:20 pm

Thefairway wrote:I've never got on with the POD, I bought one after buying, trying and dumping a terrible Behringer V-Amp 2, and now I have neither and play through an all-valve setup. As I'm going back to university in September, space 2will be at a premium so I can't take a bloody great cab along with me and over half of my guitar collection will have to stay with my parents for a while in storage. After trying the demo, I went down the Guitar Rig 2 route. For someone like me into experimental, electro and ambient music, it's a godsend, you can play with it for hours. Does it beat my current amp and cab? No it doesn't. But does my current amp and cab beat GR2? No it doesn't! Each sound source has its own application and I will be more than happy playing through GR2 during my year at uni. Digital modelling is getting better and better abnd this is the best I've used, be it POD, V-Amp 2, Valvetronix etc.

i also managed to get myself a copy of guitar rig 2 but i dont have the external foot controller... but let me tell u the sounds on that thing are phenomenal!!!!

there isnt as many amps to emulate as the pod has but the amps they have are very accurate sounding i think...

u can also have 2 cabs running out of whateve4r amp u are modelling and have one panned all the way to the left and the other panned to the right and set the mic's to different positions and choose from a wide selection of popular mics to.... panning the cabs to left and right like i said lets u get this really thiick sound.... the gratifier amp model is my fav so far along with the jcm800 and the old plexi.... some of the stomp box emulators are great i wish i could get the controller so that i could use the wah and talk box effects properly cozx they sound amazing to say the least!!!

this has to be one of the best amp modelling piece of kit i have ever used beats the pod hands down for sound quality......


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Post by LoveRocksRule » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:26 pm

but one thing i will say it really doesnt beat the sound of my realy gutiar amp
marshall JCM2000 TSL with a Laney 4x12 check out the pic....

u really cant beat the sound of a REAL tube amp can u???


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Post by LoveRocksRule » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:05 pm

Thefairway wrote:Nope, which is why I have promised myself, once university is finished in May 2007, a trip to see Dennis Cornell in order to get me a handwired amp :)

Dave, the Behringer FCB1010 foot controller works wonderfully with GR2. Normally I avoid Behringer gear as previous experiences have not been good but this is a great piece of kit. It's a sod to program, I downloaded some tips from the FCB1010 Yahoo group, altereted the patches and it now works perfectly for my needs. The expression pedals are good, perhaps not ultra-strong but good enough, the pedals are decent enough and it gives GR2 a real 'I'm playing an amp' feel.
handwired amps tube amps are awesome, especially if u got some nice vintage effects pedals in there to.... but far to expensive i dont have money to go out and get a nice handwired tube amp, my TSL 100 does me nicely but i really do love the sounds that i get from the Guitar rig 2 software....

so this behringher pedal allows me to to get real time cotrol of the stomp box emulators like the talkbox, and crybaby????

and also set my favourite amp models and effects chains to different banks on the pedal to???

the effects pedal emuators like the cry baby well i have only tried using them by just strumming a chord and moving the slider side to side on screen with my mouse just to see how they sound and well... it really sounds like a jim dunlop craybaby.... and also the digitech whammy emulator on there is pretty close to the sound of the REAL pedal... infact i would go as far to say that Guitar Rig 2 is the best Amp Modelling piece of kit i have tried out... better than anything i have tried by Line 6 anyways thats for sure... the sounds are really authentic...

and i dont even have the hardware for the software... i am just using my soundblaster audigy 7.1 soundcard....

i do believe if u buy the software u also get the fool cotroller with the expression pedal and the footcontroller actually has a built in soundcard that gives u even better latency....

i use the asio4all driver for the software i get a real good latency of 10ms u dont notice it at all

i would advice anyone who is into using there computer for music/guitar recording purposes to get this software, as it truely is amazing....

by the way u must have a good soundcard and a good enuff ASIO driver so that u can get as low a latency as possible....

i recommend going here and downloading their ASIO driver and then set Guitarrig 2's audio options to use the ASIO4all driver.... that should get u a nice low latency......

fairway thanx for letting me know about this behringher foot controller that works with Guitar rig i must try and source one so i can get full advantage of the effects sims coz they sound amazing with just ringing a chord and sliding the pedal cotrl side to side the wah sounds just like a crybaby and so does hthe whammy!!!!!!!!

so i guess with the footcontroller they are gonna be totally smokin!!!

by the way fairway what latency do u get???

and also which soundcard are u using in your system???

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Post by japanstrat » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:29 am

The thing I find with amp modellers is they all sound different and the guitar you use has a big effect on the sound.
I've tried Amplitube and a few other software modellers and DigiTech RP-50 and Behringer VAmp Pro Hardware modellers and each ones Marshall sim sounds different.
None of them really nail a true Marshall but some guitar/Amp sim combinations can get close.
Like if I put my Orville SG through the Marshall sim on the DigiTech RP-50 it sounds pretty good for that AC/DC or Led Zep 70's rock thing.
But if I change the Orville SG for a Ibanez EX Korean strat it then sounds pretty bad.
And the DigiTech RP-50 is a pretty cheap amp sim but it sounds good for the Marshall sim with my Orville SG.
The Behringer is not as cheap as the DigiTech RP50 and it's more like the Pod but it's Marshall sim sounds not as good as the DigiTech RP-50 when I'm using my Orville SG.
But the Behringer gets a better tone for some other amp models using my Fender Strat.
So I've found that I have to mix and match to get acceptable sounds.
I also own a ZVex Nano Tube Amp which is a 1/2 watt tiny tube amp and none of the amp modellers come close to the Nano.
As for latency I use a Mac with Digital Performer and with a M-Audio Audiofile soundcard I get around 4 ms latency with Amplitube.
I also found that if I use the DigiTech RP-50 on a clean setting as a preamp then go from it to the M-Audio soundcard Amplitube sounds pretty good.
A preamp or EQ is essential when using a software amp sim.
Most people who say they get crap sound or moan about how Amplitube sucks don't know how to set up a preamp IMO.
Last edited by japanstrat on Thu May 10, 2007 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by adrianclark » Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:14 pm

Skybone wrote:As Barry may tell you, a J Station in the UK is about ?150 which is half its RRP, but is it a worthwhile investment seeing as it is now "outdated"?
Two or three years ago, I would have said so. The J-Station had certain advantages over the original Pod and several other competing units (not least the bass models) but it's now a long way behind, especially compared to other products from the same umbrella company (Harmon).

My favourite modelling unit at the moment is the Digitech GNX3000. Along with the Vox Tonelab (which I owned before the GNX3000) I think it does the best job of replicating the attack sensitivity of a real amp... varying the pick attack or adjusting the guitar's volume control seems to produce a believable effect.

As for Line 6, I think the XT range was a massive improvement over the original Pods, but I still find their amp models a bit too "lumpy"... there's too much sub-bass rumble and a hump around 220Hz, which makes the sounds quite difficult to layer in a recording.


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Post by Skybone » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:57 pm

It's a strange thing that I've noticed about most of the amp modelling kit out there, that it doesn't matter what guitar you use, they basically end up sounding incredibly similar. This conclusion is not from some cork-sniffing philistine techno-phobe who has never used and will never use an amp modeller, but from the owner of one current modeller, and a former owner of a few others...

This conclusion comes from having a great hand wired amp which I bought relatively recently and have been using a fair amount of late. The POD rarely gets used these days (though I suspect this will change when my wife gives birth!)

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Post by japanstrat » Mon May 21, 2007 10:11 am

I heard some blues played through Amplitube2 the other day and it sounded pretty good but this guy could play and could also set up Amplitube to sound pretty good.
A thing I've noticed about Amp Sims is that computer sims like Amplitube, Guitar Rig etc really need a good preamp that's preferably tube or tube like.
I've also gotten some good sounds using a DigiTech Amp sim in front of a Behringer V-Amp Pro by using the Digitech as a tube like preamp on a clean tube amp sim setting and using the Behringer V-Amp Pro on a Marshall amp sim setting (4d).
The tube or tube like preamp gets rid of of a lot of that digital tone.
If I choose the V-Amp Pro Marshall setting 4d and get rid of the reverb and delay preset effects I get a pretty good Marshall sound that's maybe 95% of a real Marshall but what seems to be different is the feedback feel that I get from playing a real Marshall.
The V-Amp Pro seems to feel more like an effect when playing but actually ends up sounding pretty close to a Marshall especially when recorded.
I have to alter my playing technique a bit to compensate for the different playing feel.
Also a guitar track that might sound a bit digital on it's own can fit right in with the rest of the mix and you can end up not being able to tell much difference from a real tube amp.
You have to experiment and try different things with Amp Sims like using EQ and other effect pedals, preamps, different cab sims.
Like for instance if you have a V-Amp Pro and are recording try things like a EQ or TubeScreamer or Bad Monkey before the V-Amp Pro and then try it with one of the Amplitube cabinet sims instead of the V-Amp Pro's cabinet sims.
If you just use guitar sims stock you will probably get a stock guitar sim sort of sound.
To me real tube amps and amp sims are like conventional ovens and microwave's, both useful for certain things.

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Post by Ozeshin » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:04 am

You have to experiment and try different things with Amp Sims like using EQ and other effect pedals, preamps, different cab sims.
Like for instance if you have a V-Amp Pro and are recording try things like a EQ or TubeScreamer or Bad Monkey before the V-Amp Pro and then try it with one of the Amplitube cabinet sims instead of the V-Amp Pro's cabinet sims.
Or you could do as I've discovered... I run a Fender model on my Zoom G.2 into Guitar Rig 2 which in turn is running either "Tweed Twins" or one of the many SRV models.
It takes away some of that digital dryness and gives it a hot rodded texan blues sound :D

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Post by SteveDoG » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:38 pm

The J station is worth the price second hand, usually about ?60, for the Fender Blackface sim alone, the tweed isn't far behind either. The solo on the myspcae link on *She speaks to Angels* was done through the tweed sim on a J Station, the one on Star City was the mesa sim on the J station.

I use a J Station an Original POD, but recently i have been using the little Epiphone 5 watt valve head throguh a bespoke 2 x 12 with the POD or J Sation driving it. The Head has has it's stock valves changed from JJs, it's probably the best comprimise for recording at home, you get the valve sound plus the selection of sims.

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Post by RavenMadd » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:04 am

I use a simple Digitech Genesis ....the first one they put out ...I play my demo's for friend's ...they think I mike'd a Twin or a roaring marshall
nada leads to nada

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Post by Ozeshin » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:52 pm

I downloaded a trial version of the new Amplitube Metal and promptly picked my jaw up from the floor...both for the amazing overdriven tube amp tones and the price :o
The price factor ended up not being an issue as i now have the full version of the software...(looks nervously over shoulder):lol: .
Not only can you simulate any tube amp made EVER as well as stompboxes and rack mounted effects..but you can mix and match all three for some insane shredtastic tones.
At the moment I'm running a line out from the computer into a clean amp as a monitor and micing that up til I can get the correct cabling to run the line back into the soundcard.
When you DO mic up the monitor you get a very realistic tone(depending on mic placement of course).

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