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Can anyone tell me if this is genuine or fake?
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chrisheyes
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Joined: 05 Feb 2005
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Location: NW England

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wanorak

There are specific marks on the end of the neck and in the neck pickup which are specific to Tokai. When buying ask for photo's of these area's.

They are like this :-





You can just make out that on the neck it has 10=11 and in red within the neck pickup cavity 10=11

YS =Yellow Sunburst
A = grade of the wood ( I think )

If you don't get the photo's of these areas, then I would suspect a fake.
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javelin70
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Joined: 09 Sep 2001
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wanorak wrote:
OK! OK! OK!

All those that think the guitar is GENUINE raise your hand (or post here)

many thanks..........I think I have a lot to learn before I can buy with confidence


It's a genuine TST-40 in my opinion. The "made in japan" sticker is often missing, probably removed by a previous owner. My 1984 TLS-50 Love Rock also has that sticker and I bought that guitar new. I opened the box with the guitar myself at the distributors warehouse, it came directly from Tokai.

The difference between TST-40 and TST-50 are the tuners, the tremolo (cast in one piece with cast saddles on TST-40) and the pickups which have a ceramic bar magnet and steel poles instead of alnico magnets. It's a good guitar in my opinion but I would replace the tuners with Kluson type instead, they cover all the old screw holes except part of one at the last tuner (high E). The pickups are quite good but I would replace them too. I use Seymour Duncan Hot Stacks and Little '59 on my AST-40 (exactly the same as TST-40 except for the headstock).

The codes on the TST-40 should be on the neck end and in the control cavity like this (my 1984 TST-50, the code is probably a manufacturing date and MR stand for Metallic Red in this case):



My AST-40 (on this picture with a TST-60/80 neck):



I've kept the tremolo but the tuners are replaced with "Deluxe" stamped Klusons. It's easy to see that the "made in japan" sticker was on the original neck since the clear coat has not yellowed in that area.

Also, the TST/AST-40's do not have Fender related serial numbers, they have 6-digit serial numbers. No 5-digit numbers or Lxxxxx as on the 50's and 60's replicas, the 40 model is a generic strat copy not replicating a 50's or 60's model. You can see that on my AST-40, it has an 11-screw 3-ply '62 style pickguard and a one piece mapleneck, the 50's maplenecks had 8-screw single ply pickguards. Also, the cast trem with cast saddles was used on the 70's strats.

I like my AST-40 very much, it's a great guitar.

The serial on the black strat seems to be 229391 according to the seller.

Mike


Last edited by javelin70 on Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:44 am; edited 3 times in total
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javelin70
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Joined: 09 Sep 2001
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisheyes wrote:

A = grade of the wood ( I think )



Probably not since I have Z on my TST-50.

Mike
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ochay
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002
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Location: So. Cal.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All u rookies stand aside !
Real Early eighties Goldstar Tokai's ->>

1. Have a matching number on the neck butt and in the electronics cavity (sometimes in the neck pickup cavity)
Neck butt->9=3
Neck Pickup cavity-> 9=5
Electronics cavity-> 9=3 YSO Y

2.the early eighties Goldstar's have stamped grey bottom pickups ( I have seen a couple Goldstars with black bottom pickups-probably not original )

3. Final prospect saddles-

Have seen several with Made in Japan stickers on neck and have seen a couple with the oval and made in JApan stickers on the neck.

The Goldstars sent to europe have mostly the same markings(early eighties have the equals sign) at somepoint the markings was changed to a dash --- have seen ->
Neck butt->9-3
Neck Pickup cavity-> 9-5
Electronics cavity-> 9-3 YSO Y
[/u]
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javelin70
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ochay wrote:
All u rookies stand aside !
Real Early eighties Goldstar Tokai's ->>


2.the early eighties Goldstar's have stamped grey bottom pickups ( I have seen a couple Goldstars with black bottom pickups-probably not original )

3. Final prospect saddles-


[/u]


The TST/AST-40 strats do not have any stamp at the bottom of the pickup, there's a ceramic bar magnet there. But the bobbins are of the same grey type as on the other pickups.

Final prospec saddles only for TST-50 and higher models, the TST/AST-40's have cast saddles like the 70's Fender strats. The tremolo is also cast in one piece, the sustain block is not removable.

Mike
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Tony o'Riordan
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Joined: 01 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ochay - are you saying it's real or not?

I think it's fairly well established through this website and the catalogues that ST's lower than ST50 did not have the same pick-ups or hardware and the example we are looking at here would seem to be a typical ST-40

I'll go for genuine Tokai based on the information available.

Tony
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bobtastik
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Joined: 28 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, genuine Tokai ST-40. Only non original part I can spot is the Trem Arm (no biggy)
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ochay
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002
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Location: So. Cal.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony o'Riordan,
Its a real body/neck if the pics are like pics that chrisheyes posted-

The pics above (chrisheyes) are an excellent reference-as long as the neck butt and body numbers match and she has final prospect string saddles-she's almost forsure original- the real tremolo blocks> DO NOT have made in Japan either !

As for the ST 40's I NEVER have seen these untill the Japs started a few years ago- I did buy one from UK once that had the bar magnets - but it also had a dash in between the numbers-so as far as I'm conserned thats a late 80's early ninties Tokai sold to UK or thereabouts-
The one's that have been showing up in Japan/UK that dont have the Klusen style tuners- I wouldn't touch !! The spacing of the holes doesn't allow you to just replace with Klusen tuners.

Just my opinion though- I got one Goldstar from Japan that Had Vll stamped on the bottom of the p-ups even the Vll stamp was different than all the others I have seen--
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javelin70
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The TST/AST-40's first showed up in 1985, when I bought my second Tokai in 1985 (white TST-50 Goldstar) I also looked at the TST-40 but the difference in price was so small I bought the TST-50. Btw, the TST/AST-40 and MAT-450 series tremolos are stamped "made in japan" at the bottom of the non removable sustain block. You'll find the TST-40 and AST-40 here:

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/catalogs/tokai859.jpg

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/catalogs/tokai_85-86_electric_p3.jpg

Mike
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mike martin
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think the reason about mij stickers on the back of mij and model numbers
in the early years of toks were simply removed the same as you would remove a price sticker on anything that you bought. the same goes for the tok logos (STATUS) IN THE EARLY YEARS hands up who wanted a mia fender
or a mij tok. now its a different story as it is now becoming common knowladge just how good tokais really are .every one wants the jap tokais to be all original, and they are almost impossible to get in that condition, so as ive said before if it plays good and you like it why worry
and most toks can still be bought quite reassonably thats all imo and every one has that so feel free to chastise me
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ochay
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would't buy it if the markings don't match the above !!!
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