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JSD's GuitarShack
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Paladin2019
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Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1972
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donkey Oaty wrote:


Because Gibson want to protect there design , there workforce, there company ?????


They didn't seem too bothered when Gretsch brought out the duo jet in the 60's. Fact is they've only had copyright on the les paul since 1987 - it took them 35 years. No beaurocrat is that slow.

If you can't compete in the marketplace, compete in the courtroom. Healthy competition is good for any brand. Heck, japanese clones from the 70's were a key driving force in creating the historic reissue market.
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Donkey Oaty
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paladin2019 wrote:


They didn't seem too bothered when Gretsch brought out the duo jet in the 60's. Fact is they've only had copyright on the les paul since 1987 - it took them 35 years. No beaurocrat is that slow.

.


Both Gibson and Fender were never bothered in the 60's. But both companys have changed ownership a few times since then.

The Gibson that took PRS to court was not the Gibson in the 60's. Perhpaps they have now woke up to the fact that they have a brand to protect.

If you invented a widget and people were stealing your idea, I bet you would take action to protect your investment ( and that of your buyers )


Paladin2019 wrote:


If you can't compete in the marketplace, compete in the courtroom. Healthy competition is good for any brand. Heck, japanese clones from the 70's were a key driving force in creating the historic reissue market.


I agree 100%



What I cannot stand is people slagging of a Guitar Brand for no real reason? Tokai copied Gibson and Fender because they had a good product, you dont copy crap !


But people who buy and own Tokai's and a tendancy to come out with blanket statements that all Gibsons are shite ?


I own Tokai, Gibson, Fender, PRS and many others and I buy all of them on merit. I have had some rough old Tokais and rough old Gibsons.


I just cannot understand peoples mindset when they come out with crap such as the poster I quoted
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GARAGERAT
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Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 84
Location: ALLEN PARK, MICHIGAN, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donkey Oaty wrote:

But people who buy and own Tokai's and a tendancy to come out with blanket statements that all Gibsons are shite ?

I just cannot understand peoples mindset when they come out with crap such as the poster I quoted


How about your blanket statement that Korean Love Rocks are junk?

Donkey Oaty wrote:
Well that aint MIK Tokais then, becasue we have already established on here that they are built to a very low quality.


You did the same thing as the person you quoted. Mines a great guitar. I think you owe an appology to the MIK owners.
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Paladin2019
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Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1972
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donkey Oaty wrote:


If you invented a widget and people were stealing your idea, I bet you would take action to protect your investment ( and that of your buyers ).


Damn right. But I wouldn't wait 35 years to do it, and if I did I certainly wouldn't expect to find the system sympathetic to me. After three decades, with a break in production in between, I'd expect my invention to be practically public domain.

Donkey Oaty wrote:
What I cannot stand is people slagging of a Guitar Brand for no real reason? Tokai copied Gibson and Fender because they had a good product, you dont copy crap !


I agree. Fender and gibson's designs are classics, but their implementation of those designs is what most people question. Some of it is sour grapes, but there is a ligitimate argument to be made. "Rocker" neck joint anyone?

Donkey Oaty wrote:
But people who buy and own Tokai's and a tendancy to come out with blanket statements that all Gibsons are shite ?:?


They shouldn't, and they are wrong. You can talk about the corporate stupidity, lazy QC, poor value for money etc. but to say they're all crap guitars is a mistake.

Donkey Oaty wrote:
I own Tokai, Gibson, Fender, PRS and many others and I buy all of them on merit. I have had some rough old Tokais and rough old Gibsons.


I own tokai, fender and a taylor and none were bought because of the name. Ironically I only bought the fender because I couldn't afford a G&L or Gordon Smith.

Having said that, I've seen very few crap tokais but some absolutely shocking ?1000+ fenders and gibsons.


Last edited by Paladin2019 on Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Clay
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Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donkey Oaty wrote:
Clay wrote:
The problem I have with Gibson is that they produce an overpriced pile of sh!t .


I'm sure there rather large and extensive customer base also agree with you. Amazing how many famous guitarists over the years choose to play overpriced piles of ^&*( when they have money to burn

Gibson made some great guitars in the original Kalamazoo factory. When they moved to Nashville they sacked nearly all of the Kalamazoo employees and changed their manufacturing process (and started using cheaper materials) to boost production and cut costs. The Kalamazoo factory and original employees became "The Heritage" guitar company. Heritage blows Gibson away in quality but people will still buy a Gibson simply out of name recognition. I've bought 5 Gibson Les Pauls before I knew any better and only one turned out to be a really good guitar (78' Custom).
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tudor
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Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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Location: AC - Germany

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think there's no need to re-activate the "old discussion" ...


Gibbo has made the reference guitar and all that follows have to match with that - basta (as the Italians say) !!

They are fighting the me-too-manufactorers tooth and nail - so what ???
It's a normal process in the market. We are guitar focussed - but look into the Pharmaceuticals market - horrible!

Roger
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Donkey Oaty
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tudor wrote:
- but look into the Pharmaceuticals market - horrible!

Roger


Good analogy.

India is to making cheap generic drugs as China is to making cheap generic guitars.


Bloody good analogy tudor.
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jamamong
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSD wrote:
The hammer has fallen for Tokai "copy" guitars in all North America.

Its ALL of Tokai guitars in Canada, not just me.


Ok so what kind of blowout specials are you having?
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