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Please HELP ME, wiringtrouble!!!!
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nickt
Plucker


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they are expensive, so if you buy any, don't get stung

ok, I'll get my coat..
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declan
Guitar God


Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paladin,

Your thinking was my thinking a couple of weeks ago, it doesent make sense to me either but after sticking orange drops in a Burny, a new Tokai and a Sunn Mustang strat copy, they all had a noticeable improvement to my ear, a friends ear and, (I suspect she was lying) his partners ear who was in the next room at the time.

Possibly it is because they have better tolerances but something changed and I wanted to make sure if the caps made the difference so i upgraded them first. I was sure i was going to be posting back here with the news that fancy caps are a load of bu****it but i proved myself wrong three times. I dont think the difference is a large as some people suggest but no-one will ever persuade me that is isnt noticeable. Unless of course the caps in those three guitars were all way outside tolerance

Must try some of those bumblebees .... am i gonna need to remortgage .

Im gonna regret asking this question but is there much difference between bumblebees and vitimin q
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TSL
Guitar God


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...And people say as long as you are getting the proper amount of electricity, what power cord you use from the wall to the amp doesn't matter.

I've done blind comparrisons many times, and all these things that aren't supposed to matter, and indeed the paper says they don't DO matter!

I don't care what the science says if my ears know better.
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Paladin2019
Guitar God


Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1972
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tudor wrote:
Original Bumble Bees ... ????

Roger


Alright, the most expensive *modern* caps!

Audionote copper foils.
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ACY
Guitar God


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Bavaria

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about NOS Paper in Oil?

good on ya, "ACY"
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bruceboomstick
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 391

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys please bear in mind I am a complete dummy when it comes to electrics - that's why this is going to seem like a really really dumb question

Are caps standard? I mean do they have different ratings and if they do what's there difference?

Like I said a dumb question, but I had to ask - if I feel confident enough even I migh break out the soldering iron !!
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ACY
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Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Bavaria

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The allparts 0067-000 is not said to be a switchcraft! I?m going to see about the 4367-000 fitting in a LS. (but I do not think it will work!)
bye, "ACY"
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Paladin2019
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Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1972
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ACY wrote:
The allparts 0067-000 is not said to be a switchcraft! I?m going to see about the 4367-000 fitting in a LS. (but I do not think it will work!)
bye, "ACY"


Really? I'll check for markings but I'm sure it was. It's just not the one that everyone uses and recognises.

In any case, if you compare the 0067-000 to the 'switchcraft' one you'll see it's the same design, same contact mechanism, just shorter with more space taken up by the thread. It's the solid and rugged mechanism that makes the switchcraft so good, not the name, and the long thread switch has that mechanism.

I actually tried to install the 4367-000 once but it was simply too short to fit the LS. A trusted tech actually refused to sand down the interior of the cavity in order to fit it because he said it would leave that part of the guitar extremely vulnerable to severe damage.

Switchcraft:


0067:


Standard 3-way:


EDIT: looking at it, the screw heads and colour of the dividers shows that the 67 probably isn't switchcraft, but my point about the mechanism stands.
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Paladin2019
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Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1972
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceboomstick wrote:

Are caps standard?


Nope, caps come in every shape, size, type and rating imagineable!

To keep it simple, let's just talk about a guitar's tone caps. Most of them are 0.022uF and 0.047uF for humbuckers and single coils respectively. The higher the value the more of your treble they take from the signal, so humbuckers use a lower value than singles to avoid getting too muddy when the tone control is rolled back.

They're rated for voltage as well - 400v or 600v usually - but in a guitar that value is meaningless so you often won't see it listed.

Most manufacturers use cheap film caps on their tone controls, which are quite small and usually brown or green. Sprague orange drops are the standard for cap upgrades because they're relatively cheap and very good quality. The very best audio caps are paper in oil types, which are huge and heavy and very expensive. They're what you find in vintage les pauls, but I don't reckon they're noticeably better than orange drops. Once you're out of cheapo territory, it's hard to see how a super-cap can make much difference.
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ACY
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Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Bavaria

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here?s just my "to see" bout the switches! The only thing I did with the stock switches of my LS and Sg: I gave them a good drop of 100% DeOxit pure! After that a drop of ProGold. So the switches work absolutely perfect, and there is no need to change it to me.

good on ya, "ACY"
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GARAGERAT
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Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 84
Location: ALLEN PARK, MICHIGAN, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Sprague Bumble Bees/Black Beautys Reply with quote

I dont know if anyone noticed on the fake58 website that those are not real Sprague Bumble Bees. There are 2 pages with the description of the caps, one more detailed than the other. Here's what it says on the second page: [url]http://www.fake58.co.uk/G electrics.htm[/url]

Quote:
Bumblebee capacitors are found on Gibson? guitars made after 1954. Our vintage style Bumblebee capacitors are hand. made using the finest foil/film audio capacitors and cases moulded from original vintage caps. Just the thing to make your reissue look more authentic.


Note the word "style" and the phrases "cases moulded from original vintage caps" and "look more authentic". They may be fine quality caps inside but they're not real Bumble Bees. They cost 25 GBP a pair which is close to $50 USD. I got 5 NOS Genuine Sprague Black Beautys on Ebay from a guy that has 200 or so of them which internally are the same cap as a Bumble Bee for $50 USD,plus shipping of course(about $5 USD for me). Enough to do 2 guitars and have a spare cap. I don't want it to seem like I'm slamming fake58 It's just that my money is very precious and I would hate to think I'm getting the real deal and that not be the case. Hope this doesn't come across the wrong way. Fake58 has some real cool stuff but I noticed this when I was looking for caps and just had to point it out.
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Last edited by GARAGERAT on Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:57 pm; edited 3 times in total
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GARAGERAT
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Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 84
Location: ALLEN PARK, MICHIGAN, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:52 pm    Post subject: Link to Black Beautys Reply with quote

Here's a link to an auction from the seller I got my Black Beautys from. Just in case anyone wants it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=180018110341
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bruceboomstick
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 391

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Most of them are 0.022uF and 0.047uF for


With that info and Garagerats auction post I can see what I'm looking at. That's really useful info because I've always been on pretty solid ground with pickups, but always taken the rest for granted - coupled with info about about pots I picked recently I reckon I could have a bash at some mods to my project guitar - before doing anything drastic to my proper ones.
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declan
Guitar God


Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce,
As long as you take care not to spill molten solder on the finish of your guitar you really can't do any damage thats not easily reversable.

If you are really not feeling confident or have a shaky hand, have some spare wire in reserve before you start, as melting the insulation on some of the wiring is about as much damage as you can do.
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