Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

how to magnetically reverse the phase of a PAF?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index -> Tokai Guitars
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roe
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Trondheim, Norway

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no,

you can hear the phase effect better on i the treble than the bass

i've just read this in guitar mags. and heard a few clips. there's some info on the duncan forum as well.
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes
Shiro FA90/ES175 Tokai LS320 SG155 ES155 Gretsch 6131MY Warmoth Esq Metro JTM45 JTM50 JMP50 Express Komet Clark Piedmont 6G6B & Rockford Rev. Li'l Dawg Champster Alessandro Rottweiler
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tudor
Guitar God


Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 1542
Location: AC - Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From Seymore Duncans' web page:

71. What did Peter Green do to his Humbuckers to give him his sound and does he still have his old Les Paul that he used in early recording with Fleetwood Mac? Jeff Ross, Hollywood, Ca

This question has come up a lot lately. What Peter Green did was pretty easy to do. First the neck pickup is out of phase with the bridge pickup. To do this the cover was removed from the Humbucking Pickup, the screws loosened and the Alnico bar magnet was pull out and flipped over 180? degrees and put back in place. The screws that were loosened need to be firmly tightened or you will have extra feedback problems. The magnet should be pulled out on the opposite end where the lead and hookup wires are attached and soldered. When putting the pickup back in the mounting ring, you need to reverse the angle of the ring. When you put the pickup back into the routed cavity the adjustable screws will face the bridge and the studs (under the cover) will face the neck. The stud side of the bobbin has a slightly higher magnetic field than the adjustable side. This is because the adjustable screws extend out the bottom of the pickup and loose some of the magnetic field to the strings.



Roe,

I really enjoy helping people who have questions ...

... but obviously you have already known what we were trying to figure out ...!
From that point of view - I don't understand the purpose of your original question!!



Roger
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Paladin2019
Guitar God


Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1972
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roe wrote:


you can hear the phase effect better on i the treble than the bass



That's rubbish. The only difference between the two that I've ever heard talked about is that electrical phase can be noisier than magnetic phase, and I'm not even sure if that's true.

If you'd like I could put together a clip or two for you showing what electrical phase sounds like. From what you're saying, it sounds like you've never heard an electrical out of phase guitar, so maybe I can help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Roe
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Trondheim, Norway

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tudor wrote:
Quote:
From Seymore Duncans' web page:

71. What did Peter Green do to his Humbuckers to give him his sound and does he still have his old Les Paul that he used in early recording with Fleetwood Mac? Jeff Ross, Hollywood, Ca

This question has come up a lot lately. What Peter Green did was pretty easy to do. First the neck pickup is out of phase with the bridge pickup. To do this the cover was removed from the Humbucking Pickup, the screws loosened and the Alnico bar magnet was pull out and flipped over 180? degrees and put back in place. The screws that were loosened need to be firmly tightened or you will have extra feedback problems. The magnet should be pulled out on the opposite end where the lead and hookup wires are attached and soldered. When putting the pickup back in the mounting ring, you need to reverse the angle of the ring. When you put the pickup back into the routed cavity the adjustable screws will face the bridge and the studs (under the cover) will face the neck. The stud side of the bobbin has a slightly higher magnetic field than the adjustable side. This is because the adjustable screws extend out the bottom of the pickup and loose some of the magnetic field to the strings.



Roe,

I really enjoy helping people who have questions ...

... but obviously you have already known what we were trying to figure out ...!
From that point of view - I don't understand the purpose of your original question!!



Roger


I didn't knew when I asked. found out later.
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes
Shiro FA90/ES175 Tokai LS320 SG155 ES155 Gretsch 6131MY Warmoth Esq Metro JTM45 JTM50 JMP50 Express Komet Clark Piedmont 6G6B & Rockford Rev. Li'l Dawg Champster Alessandro Rottweiler
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Roe
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Trondheim, Norway

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paladin2019 wrote:
Roe wrote:


you can hear the phase effect better on i the treble than the bass



That's rubbish. The only difference between the two that I've ever heard talked about is that electrical phase can be noisier than magnetic phase, and I'm not even sure if that's true.

If you'd like I could put together a clip or two for you showing what electrical phase sounds like. From what you're saying, it sounds like you've never heard an electrical out of phase guitar, so maybe I can help.


yes, I've heard guitars that's electrical out of phase. here's what I'm refering to, the article "The secret of Green's Supernatural pickups" in
the November 2000 issue of Guitar Player:

"Magnetically generated phase shift seems to respond to pitch changes-the higher the note, the more pronounced the effect. <BR>Chords and bass notes don't have the thin, shrill sound of out-of-phase wiring, yet high notes played on the top strings have a prnounced hollow cry. Want to judge the sound of the "Greeny wiring" for yourself? visit truefire.com and download "inside B.B.'s Blues"."

I probably found the clips at the Toneninja website, but it's down at the moment.
I doubt that I'm able to do before and after clips.

anyway, here's more info that I've found:
http://www.hamerfanclub.com/jolspeaks.html
http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6443

http://www.vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?t=16451&highlight=peter+green
http://www.vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?t=17200&highlight=peter+green
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes
Shiro FA90/ES175 Tokai LS320 SG155 ES155 Gretsch 6131MY Warmoth Esq Metro JTM45 JTM50 JMP50 Express Komet Clark Piedmont 6G6B & Rockford Rev. Li'l Dawg Champster Alessandro Rottweiler
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tudor
Guitar God


Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 1542
Location: AC - Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roe,


didn't want to offend you, but it sounded curious to me ...

Quote:
I didn't knew when I asked. found out later.



... nevertheless, I estimate those contributions very highly, 'cause they help to find 'your tone' .


Roger
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Paladin2019
Guitar God


Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1972
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roe wrote:


"Magnetically generated phase shift seems to respond to pitch changes-the higher the note, the more pronounced the effect. <BR>Chords and bass notes don't have the thin, shrill sound of out-of-phase wiring, yet high notes played on the top strings have a prnounced hollow cry. Want to judge the sound of the "Greeny wiring" for yourself? visit truefire.com and download "inside B.B.'s Blues"."



I'm still skeptical. The phase effect can be fine tuned using your volume controls anyway.

Either way, it would be very easy for you to swap over two wires to see if you like what you hear and could save a lot of effort. It would be a lot harder and a lot riskier to mod a pickup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Roe
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Trondheim, Norway

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, I'm doing it the hard way
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes
Shiro FA90/ES175 Tokai LS320 SG155 ES155 Gretsch 6131MY Warmoth Esq Metro JTM45 JTM50 JMP50 Express Komet Clark Piedmont 6G6B & Rockford Rev. Li'l Dawg Champster Alessandro Rottweiler
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paladin2019
Guitar God


Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1972
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roe wrote:
yes, I'm doing it the hard way


Fair enough.

I would recommend getting a professional to do it though, especially if you have a covered pickup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Roe
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Trondheim, Norway

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's pic of how to do it: http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/barmagswap.htm
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes
Shiro FA90/ES175 Tokai LS320 SG155 ES155 Gretsch 6131MY Warmoth Esq Metro JTM45 JTM50 JMP50 Express Komet Clark Piedmont 6G6B & Rockford Rev. Li'l Dawg Champster Alessandro Rottweiler
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Roe
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Trondheim, Norway

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've performed the greeny mod now. gonna test with my champ(ster) right away.
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes
Shiro FA90/ES175 Tokai LS320 SG155 ES155 Gretsch 6131MY Warmoth Esq Metro JTM45 JTM50 JMP50 Express Komet Clark Piedmont 6G6B & Rockford Rev. Li'l Dawg Champster Alessandro Rottweiler
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Roe
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Trondheim, Norway

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

champster blew fuse. don't have new one here as I'm on vacation. will have to wait
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes
Shiro FA90/ES175 Tokai LS320 SG155 ES155 Gretsch 6131MY Warmoth Esq Metro JTM45 JTM50 JMP50 Express Komet Clark Piedmont 6G6B & Rockford Rev. Li'l Dawg Champster Alessandro Rottweiler
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TSL
Guitar God


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know much about Peter Green, other than he played Matamp (which lead tp them being called Green for a while), and I didn't care for the band he started once they got that stand up gal singer.

I do know, that all the Gary Moore I've seen has him playing a LP where the neck PU visable pole pieces face the bridge, not the neck. Also, that black LP Jeff Beck played in the Blow by Blow period also has the reversed PU. Is it possible to get this effect by just flipping the PU around, without taking it all apart?
Or do I just know nothing about what this thread is talking about?

While I am showing my ignorance on wiring things, I am finding those NOS Bumblebee caps sell for over $100, and are decades old! Any modern cap I can buy new for a reasonable fee that will be similar at all?

Thanks..


Last edited by TSL on Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GARAGERAT
Guitar God


Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 84
Location: ALLEN PARK, MICHIGAN, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:38 pm    Post subject: OFF TOPIC, SORRY Reply with quote

YOU CAN GET NOS SPRAGUE .022 BLACK BEAUTIES, WHICH ARE THE SAME CAP AS THE BUMBLE BEES, JUST LOOK DIFFERENT ON THE OUTSIDE, ON EBAY. I GOT 5 FOR $50 USD FROM THIS SELLER FOR MY 50'S WIRING MOD. THEY SOUND AWESOME. HERE'S A LINK TO THE AUCTION I GOT MINE FROM:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=71573&item=180001885654

THE VOLTAGE RATING IS 600vdc, THE GIBSON SPEC IS 400vdc BUT IT DOESNT AFFECT THE TONE.
_________________

"Fetish properties are not unlike porn. I'd feel guilty takin' their money if I wasn't, well.... kinda' one of em". Rob Gordon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
TSL
Guitar God


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, thanks!

There are a few here and there on eBay as I write this, but there are all who knows how old, and up for auction.

Thing I can just plain buy, ideally new, and will perform at the rated specs? I've had bad luck with old parts, as they were just plain old. Granted, they will likely sound better, but I would like to not have to worry about something suffering old age. I perform live often, and reliability is a huge concern.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index -> Tokai Guitars All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group