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B stock tokai
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Amo
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Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 91
Location: The Lakes , England

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LBUK wrote:


Unfortunately mail order will always be riskier.

LBUK


Yep

I must have talked the ear off the guy at Coda

Years ago I bought a Gordon Smith from Rokas unseen and when it turned up it had a tiny scratch near the bridge that was so small you could barely see it. Apparently it was caused by the guy in the shop putting new strings on prior to sending me it

In the case was a note saying "Sorry" and 10 sets of free strings!

Guilt is a strange thing
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bruceboomstick
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 391

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be a conspiracy abounding concerning "B-Stock". I would be suprised if there were dealers conciously flogging off B grade items as A grade in the hope that no-one notices. In the worst cases I'm sure trading standards would be involved and their reputation would soon suffer. Surely the number of returns would cripple their business?

I have another theory - these dodgy guitars all seem to come mail order from larger concerns (such as the one alluded to by the Donkey Oaty Code). Could it simply that as box shifters the guitars are either being drop shipped from the distributor or simply shipped in and shipped out - in either case there's no opportunity for guitars to be quality controlled.

Just for reference purposes, have a look at www.guitars.co.uk and their control process (they reject abour 10 guitars every week). That gives an idea of how many potential issues there can be on an un-inspected guitar.

One final thought - as buyers we all want cheap prices and next day delivery, in doing so are we just rewarding the volume orientated box shifter. Perhaps if we paid a little more and waited a little longer we'd get a better service?

I think the best way to buy guitars my web or mail is to find a dealer you feel comfortable with - talk to them and build a relationship before you buy - if a dealer is commited to customer servce they'll do all they can to ensure you buy whatever you want now and whatever you want next from them.
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Jamieh
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Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceboomstick wrote:
One final thought - as buyers we all want cheap prices and next day delivery, in doing so are we just rewarding the volume orientated box shifter. Perhaps if we paid a little more and waited a little longer we'd get a better service?


+ a million

If you want dirt cheap then I am afraid in many cases something has to suffer.

I try very very hard to give my customers the best possible service I can, but I can't do this at the prices that guys like Coda can. I don't personally believe that Coda shift out B-Grade stock, maybe by mistake on occassion, but not on purpose despite stories I've heard.

They buy cheaper than smaller dealers anyway because they by tens of thousands of guitars at a time.... smaller dealers simply can't afford to dedicate that much cash to one product line so they can't get the same prices.

There is a lot to be said for supporting your local store, and as mentioned above, finding a dealer you can get on with and trust to give you the best deal..... and remember I mean the BEST deal, which is not always teh cheapest deal.... there is a difference!
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stratmoto
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Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 439
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamieh wrote:
bruceboomstick wrote:
One final thought - as buyers we all want cheap prices and next day delivery, in doing so are we just rewarding the volume orientated box shifter. Perhaps if we paid a little more and waited a little longer we'd get a better service?


+ a million

If you want dirt cheap then I am afraid in many cases something has to suffer.



In the early '80's, NASA introduced a managerial doctrine of "FASTER, CHEAPER, BETTER".

By 1987, this doctrine bit them on the backside and cost them 7 lives and a space shuttle.

The engineers from NASA were quoted in saying "Faster, cheaper, better... sure, chose any two of them. You cannot have all three"

It is one of those things that has always rung true ever since I heard it and can be easily applied to guitars.

"Quality before quantity"..now that's what I want to hear.

Peter
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LBUK
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Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 46
Location: UK Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a place for mail order and you can build up a relationship with a mail order dealer.

Quote:
One final thought - as buyers we all want cheap prices and next day delivery, in doing so are we just rewarding the volume orientated box shifter. Perhaps if we paid a little more and waited a little longer we'd get a better service?


I don't think there is anything wrong in that as long as people understand that with next day delivery the guitar can not be checked or set up properly. Most of us set the guitars up ourselves or pay for a set up so no problem if the guitar is fundamentally OK. Of course we want low prices if it means we can afford a slightly better guitar.

Quote:
There is a lot to be said for supporting your local store, and as mentioned above, finding a dealer you can get on with and trust to give you the best deal..... and remember I mean the BEST deal, which is not always teh cheapest deal.... there is a difference!


I understand this philosophy but if there is not 'a local store' or if you are unable to travel or there is not the choice available at your local store then why not use the internet. Its horses for courses. Afterall most 'local stores' have a website and sell mail order or sell through e-bay. Also I have been completely unimpressed by the service of some 'local stores'

Your theories are in an ideal world. What we need is choice and better QC.
As for cheapest not being best that depends on where your coming from on a financial basis. It all depends on YOUR priorities. Let people decide for themselves.

LBUK
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sscanlan
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Coda Music that big then? To me they are my local store. Sure they've got a good range of guitars in the shop but I've been to many other shops that are the same size. I'm surprised they're being described as a bulk dealer rather than a local shop to be honest.
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Jamieh
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Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LBUK wrote:
I understand this philosophy but if there is not 'a local store' or if you are unable to travel or there is not the choice available at your local store then why not use the internet. Its horses for courses. Afterall most 'local stores' have a website and sell mail order or sell through e-bay. Also I have been completely unimpressed by the service of some 'local stores'


Yeah, I get your point there.... but you know where I was coming from.

LBUK wrote:
Your theories are in an ideal world. What we need is choice and better QC.
As for cheapest not being best that depends on where your coming from on a financial basis. It all depends on YOUR priorities. Let people decide for themselves.


Oh, of course, we must all be allowed to decide for ourselves... absolutely... but we must also accept that if the decision we take is not the safest that the element of risk in that decision is ours, no one elses.

I am writing this from the perspective of an online guitar seller BTW, that is what I do, I sell guitars online, so I am not sending you off to your local store in some luddite attempt at driving sales away from the online marketplace!

Like you said though, horses for courses.
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bruceboomstick
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 391

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is Coda Music that big then? To me they are my local store. Sure they've got a good range of guitars in the shop but I've been to many other shops that are the same size. I'm surprised they're being described as a bulk dealer rather than a local shop to be honest.


I think rather than "big" I'd describe coda certainly as a national dealer - they always run a big add in guitarist. Although I've never used them I'd always consider them - I know plenty of people who have. Based on what I know of them like Jamie I'd be (very) suprised if they were selling b stock.

I think being in any business is difficult - stay small and margins stay small - get big too quickley and quality can suffer. When it comes to guitars you have a complex product and very choosy buyers - I guess anyone can sell a cheap guitar, but selling a good guitar cheapley is a bit harder !

But I guess just to put some perpective on things I know people who have bought TV, Fridges, Motorcycles, Cars, xboxes and so on and had problems with them - so I guess every market sector has issues. I guess we like to fool ourselves that guitars are not mass produced - but they are, so that means they have more in common with my toaster than I'd care to admit.

(My toaster doesn't toast, it burns bread, yesterday it turned a muffin into a briquette in fifteen seconds flat )
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bruceboomstick
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 391

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is Coda Music that big then? To me they are my local store. Sure they've got a good range of guitars in the shop but I've been to many other shops that are the same size. I'm surprised they're being described as a bulk dealer rather than a local shop to be honest.


I think rather than "big" I'd describe coda certainly as a national dealer - they always run a big add in guitarist. Although I've never used them I'd always consider them - I know plenty of people who have. Based on what I know of them like Jamie I'd be (very) suprised if they were selling b stock.

I think being in any business is difficult - stay small and margins stay small - get big too quickley and quality can suffer. When it comes to guitars you have a complex product and very choosy buyers - I guess anyone can sell a cheap guitar, but selling a good guitar cheapley is a bit harder !

But I guess just to put some perpective on things I know people who have bought TV, Fridges, Motorcycles, Cars, xboxes and so on and had problems with them - so I guess every market sector has issues. I guess we like to fool ourselves that guitars are not mass produced - but they are, so that means they have more in common with my toaster than I'd care to admit.

(My toaster doesn't toast, it burns bread, yesterday it turned a muffin into a briquette in fifteen seconds flat )
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bruceboomstick
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 391

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey that did some wierd double post !!!!

That's the gremlins for you, my toaster is going to take over the world
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joukov
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Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 280
Location: Helsinki, Finland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite a few Finnish guitar players have bought Gibsons from Coda this year and they haven't reported anything bad, on the contrary.
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sscanlan
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you put strings on the toaster and knock out a quick rendition of Stairway To Heaven though????

I'm in the market for a new acoustic in the next week or so, so will defintely be visiting Coda again so if I have a bad experience I'll post it....and also if I have a good one I'll do likewise.
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togps
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 2043
Location: Bavaria, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
.... I'm in the market for a new acoustic in the next week or so,

Don't miss to check out the new Tokai acoustic series!
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sscanlan
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

togps wrote:
Quote:
.... I'm in the market for a new acoustic in the next week or so,

Don't miss to check out the new Tokai acoustic series!


yes.....someone else mentioned it on another thread I started. I've emailed Bob at Tokai UK for any info he may have as there's not much on the website. Do you have any rough idea of what models and their prices will be?
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Jamieh
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Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sscanlan wrote:
togps wrote:
Quote:
.... I'm in the market for a new acoustic in the next week or so,

Don't miss to check out the new Tokai acoustic series!


yes.....someone else mentioned it on another thread I started. I've emailed Bob at Tokai UK for any info he may have as there's not much on the website. Do you have any rough idea of what models and their prices will be?


Can't help you on that... but there is one new Tokai acoustic, name of which completely escapes me, but is a Gibson copy, like the one David Gilmour tends to use when doing Wish You Were Here (again model number escapes me sorry!!) which is lovely!!

Not an electro, but a lovely full bodied dreadnought... really really good sound and superb playing action!
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