My first Tokai..many QC issues *High Resolution pics page 2*

supreme said:

Update.

The shop talked with Bob from Tokai UK and they agreed to swap for a Goldtop (LS-75 I assume). I had told Bob that if they could not find a Custom, a Goldtop would be OK as a last resort. It is cheaper than a Custom so I asked the shop for a set of strings, strap and speedknobs to even it......but like I told Bob, I prefer a Custom though, that was my initial goal.

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Hi supreme,
I wish you good luck with the swap with the gold top, I hope you will like it! I however think that you do not need to accept a swap of the LC70-80 to a gold top if you don?t want a gold top. If there is no similar instrument to replace the LC I think you have all the rights in the world for a refund including getting back your former Epi guitar. Personally, I would prefer a gold top above a LC70-80 (Gold top has visible wooden mahogany neck and back, less posh bindings etc.), but that is all a matter of personal taste. I also think a gold top currently is even more expensive compared to a LC.
Anyway, I wish you good luck and hope the new guitar you?ll receive puts you over this bad experience.

Regards, Kappie

PS: Even Snowy White plays a gold top (true, but just kidding)

Supreme, now you could tell us the name of the shop you bought that terrible Tokai LC. Quite a few people from Finland buy guitars from UK, so it would be helpful to know which store to avoid.

Also good to hear that you are getting another Tokai!!

been following this through a different forum like many have looking at the amount of hits.

what a shame, tokai screwed up and now they are sending him a cheaper different type tokai to replace a troll.
this is weak and made me look at tokai in a different way.
i was looking for a tokai, but now after this weak response from tokai, i am looking at edwards thanx.

i mean all manufacturers screw up, some more than others, but at least be apologetic about it and make sure your customer is even happier with the replacement than the one he first got.
thats how you do business.

this guy should at least get a top of the line tokai lc-180 custom for all the sh@t, not some cheapo standard goldtop.

dont fall for it supreme, this is a joke. ask your money and epi back from these bastards.

thisisweak said:

what a shame, tokai screwed up and now they are sending him a cheaper different type tokai to replace a troll.
this is weak and made me look at tokai in a different way.
i was looking for a tokai, but now after this weak response from tokai, i am looking at edwards thanx.

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That?s a little short sighted thisisweak.

Although you are right in saying that Tokai?s response to customers is poor (I wrote them a couple of mails but I never got a reply) their guitars are usually great. But just as one bird doesn?t bring summer one other bad bird doesn?t bring winter...

Actually, I think one of the reasons for this forum is the poor response of Tokai to customers questions. They sure could learn something in that respect.

Talking guitars is different though. I have 4 Tokai?s and I would not want to miss any of them. Except for the PRS model they all are better than their American counterparts, surely when you talk about price/quality.
My PR52 is a good guitar but at only 1/5 th of the price it can?t be compared with, let it be better, than a real PRS.
My LS 85Q however is far better than my former Gibson Les Paul Studio in all respects. That?s why I sold my LPStudio and kept the Tokai.
The same goes for my 1984 ST40 replacing my 1975 Fender Mustang with it?s bad finsih.

For me, it is a matter of quality for money and I haven?t found anything better than the Tokai?s yet.

Regards, Kappie

I can see why the word Troll had to come up in this thread... :wink:

Fully agree with the post above by thisisweak.It is weak.

First of all,I am from the Gibson forum,I have a flawless Gibson SG,dont shoot me yet.Read my entire post before getting angry.Been following it through another forum too.

Double standards?Yep.

Point1.If this had been a Gibson the entire of internet would be damning Gibson and all Gibson owners too,even if it was bought online,unplayed.,the dealer would be blameless.And these pictures would be posted for 10 years to come everytime someone mentions Gibson.

But now it is a Tokai so it is the dealers fault or the guy is lying about it, and of course Tokai cant be blamed for anything at all.They 'just' built the guitar.

Point 2.If Gibson replaced a Custom with a cheaper Standard,all hell would break loose, especially by people like here.Now Tokai does relatively speaking the same thing and isnt it lovely,what a nice thing from Tokai to do,arent they handling it the right way,kisses,flours and candy for everyone who has Tokais.

This is a disgusting reply by Tokai,what are they thinking?Send him at least a matching guitar,and include many apologies to go with it.This is by far the worst guitar I have seen so far in my life!Like the above poster correctly said,if you really know how to do busines send him a topline guitar,it will cost Tokai maybe a hundred bucks, tops.But considering it hurts Tokai to even send him a cheaper Goldtop,I am not holding my breath.You want to call me a troll for this,which shows your mental age,go ahead.

Supreme, get out of this is my best advice.Get back your Sheraton and 250 pounds.

Make music not war
Tokai or Gibson
We all love guitars

Kappie said:

Make music not war
Tokai or Gibson
We all love guitars

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Now I am reading around on this forum I think that would be a nice advice for Tokai owners. Geez people where do you get this hatefull stuff from in those other threads?

You wont see this kind of hatred against a brand on the Gibson or Les Paul forum.We just play the **** things without being obsessed at what brand others play,the end.You wanna play Tokai,fine,but why be obsessed at what others play in their own free time?And write essays about it?Not even daring to write Gibson but G****n,that is freaky.

On-Topic though, I just emailed this Bob Murdoch person about it.

You wont see this kind of hatred against a brand on the Gibson or Les Paul forum.We just play the **** things without being obsessed at what brand others play,the end.You wanna play Tokai,fine,but why be obsessed at what others play in their own free time?And write essays about it?Not even daring to write Gibson but G****n,that is freaky.

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Don't know about that. Just had a quick read through the official Gibson forum on a thread discussing Tokais and the general G owner response seemed to be 'They may be OK for those who can't afford a Gibson but hell they're still just cheap copies'.

Re Supreme's experience - if this is a Genuine Tokai - and no reason to suspect it isn't - black marks to Tokai for letting out the door;

black marks to Tokai UK for distributing it if it came through them;

likewise to the dealer for accepting it and trying to pass it off;

addtional black marks to the dealer and Tokai UK for not offering an identical model replacement or refund.

If I were the responsible dealer/distributor I'd be bending over backwards to ensure the customer's complete satisfaction.

On the timeless Gibson/Tokai debate I had an interesting experience this week. Eventually got round to bringing my LS150 to a local shop for a set up and had a bit of a discussion re the quality of Tokais etc. Sales manager was sceptical and raved about a Gibson Les Paul Classic hanging on the wall. Had a look and without bias it was one of the worst looking LPs I've ever seen - wine red plaintop with trapezoidal inlays the colour of un-aged urine. Still - I didn't play it and each to their own. Had a bit of good natured banter with the staff and suggested they play the Tokai and let me know what they thought. Also had the LS150 spec sheet in the case highlighting the one piece body; solid AA/AAA maple top; long tenon; nitro finish ... blah blah. My LS150 is an excellent example.

Picked the guitar up a few days later ... and the verdict. Sales manager and assistant much preferred the LP Classic with its thin 60s neck; multipiece body; ceramic pickups and 'urine' inlays although the Tokai was a 'nice enough wee guitar' but not worth the current ?750 asking price. Oh yes - and the Tokai was "too light".

Had another fun bit of banter and left thinking 'Ah well - I tried'.

Get the refund pal - then..why don't you have a look round and find somewhere that has the guitar you want in stock? :wink: :wink:

SGRocks -

OK - you've lost your mental runs now on this forum, we have taken note of it ... Good bye!


Roger

Cheers for some of the comments so far.

Tomorrow I will be contacted by the shop and Bob probably. I thought about it and I will tell them I have decided that if my Epi has not been sold, I want it back and also refund the 200 pounds I paid on top. I am sure I would get a flawless hand-picked Tokai by Bob, but I thought about it and the brand Tokai bothers me now. Maybe stubborn from me, but I don't care anymore.

BTW, does Tokai in Japan never respond to emails, faxes, phones etc. or am I the only loser here?

I think you're not a loser ! ... not in my eyes ...

... but a man who is inexpiably and filled with bitterness whatever the reason may befor that!!

Good luck!

Roger

What in becoming increasingly clear in this thread is that the the only person involved who clearly seems to have done no wrong is Supreme. The role of Tokai, it's UK distributor and the dealer who sold the guitar is open to question, and to my mind, they have not responded satisfactorily as yet. Without question, the dealer should be responsible for resolving this issue with the customer and then investigating the cause with the distributor and Tokai. However if this had happened, we would not have learned about it.

This guitar should NEVER have been sent to a customer as a new full spec product if it was already in this condition. If the dealer didn't examine the guitar before dispatch he should be regarded as negligent at best. If he did examine the guitar then people should draw their own conclusions as to his motives. Either way he should be named so others can approach him suitably informed in future.

Supreme has had his integrity and honesty called into question for rightly reporting this matter to us in the forum and of this I would say the following;

Tokai guitars have been becoming increasingly popular for a number of years now and this trend seems to be accelerating. Demand seems to be outstripping supply with much anecdotal evidence suggesting that Tokai cannot keep up with orders. Under these circumstances there is often the temptation for manufacturers to to cut corners or drop standards in order to meet demand. This may or may not be the case here but if there is a lessening of quality control at Tokai for any reason then I would personally be grateful to anyone who brought it ty my attention. I feel anybody with an interest in Tokais should feel the same. At the very least, accusations of inferior quality should be greeted with an open mind until hard evidence is forthcoming.

Supreme, I think you're right to cancel the deal but having brought this issue to our attention, if you now finish it without telling us who the dealer was, it will seem like you were only using the forum for your own benefit and others will feel justified in questioning your integrity. This could easily happen to others if you don't disclose who it is.

Do the right thing.

jawilluk said:

it will seem like you were only using the forum for your own benefit and others will feel justified in questioning your integrity. This could easily happen to others if you don't disclose who it is.

Do the right thing.

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I agreed with you up to this point. I mean why do you think I posted it here....... for altruistic reasons? Of course it was for my own benefit, to get me out of this situation I did not ask for. I don't see how that is wrong?

And guess what.....the same day I posted it here on this forum the ball started running. Suddenly everyone woke up and wanted to do something about it. Before that, no movement. Coincidence? I think not. In fact if I hadn't posted it here, I would now probably be still waiting for an email or a call to know where I stand.

I can't believe people here would see this as something negative, but a few obviously do.....I am guessing here but maybe they work for Tokai or make money in the guitar biz and see how dangerous guys like me are for their biz who will take it to the max. Guys who stick out their heads usually get decapitated by those folk.

I will await what happens tomorrow, I asked many questions in my last email to the shop which they will answer. I am doing this as fair and honest as I possibly can without erasing myself. Otherwise I could have posted the info of the shop and ruined their business a long time ago, also I could damage the image of Tokai, seeing how many people are checking this thread out from all over internet it seems...........but I still have not posted all this with the pics on any other forum. Just talked briefly about it in 1 post on a Dutch forum and it got ignored because that was not the topic.

People who believe they have a God given right to judge my intergrity for this can do whatever they want, it shows what kind of persons they are.

My ls-85 came flawless from Ishibashi.

It is so well built that I still can't believe it and I own a 2000$ Gretsch to compare (the later is impressive).

go for the hand picked Tokai, you will get a cracking guitar for the price. Everyone makes inferior products, QC sometimes breaks down, that is the nature of manufacturing, can guarantee the situation you are in has happened to many people with many different guitar manufacturers.

Don't let this taint your oppinion of Tokai.

And also, this is not meant to be a nasty comment, but you must be careful with a guitar that you do not test or see before you buy.

supreme said:

BTW, does Tokai in Japan never respond to emails, faxes, phones etc. or am I the only loser here?

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I've never got a reply from them, but Bob is the man to talk to.

tudor said:

SGRocks -

OK - you've lost your mental runs now on this forum, we have taken note of it ... Good bye!


Roger

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Roger,did you notice you didnt dispute any of the legitimate points I made?That says something.

jawilluk wrote:
it will seem like you were only using the forum for your own benefit and others will feel justified in questioning your integrity.

Supreme Wrote;

I agreed with you up to this point. I mean why do you think I posted it here....... for altruistic reasons? Of course it was for my own benefit, to get me out of this situation I did not ask for. I don't see how that is wrong?

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My point was that 'it will seem like you were only using the forum for your own benefit'. I had hoped that there was perhaps a small element of concern for others in your motivation. Sadly, It seems I was mistaken.