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tokai es 120 neck narrower than 335
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jpgiancaspro
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Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: tokai es 120 neck narrower than 335 Reply with quote

I have read on Harmony central reviews that the es series neck width is narrower than a gibson 335 and that the strings are therefor closer together and may be harder to play. Does any one have any info on this? I do not want to order a guitar from Japan without trying it out and then be dissappointed in the string spacing. The guy on Harmony central said that the tokai es measures 34 mm from the outside of the first string to the outside of the 6th string. My american strat and tele measures 36.5 mm. with a 43 mm nut. From what I found on the web the actual nut width of the 335 is 40mm, 43 mm for the Lucille model.

Bottom line, does anyone have any actual measurements to calm my prepurchase jitters??
thanks folks
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FordFanJpn
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 95
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: tokai es 120 neck narrower than 335 Reply with quote

jpgiancaspro wrote:
I have read on Harmony central reviews that the es series neck width is narrower than a gibson 335 and that the strings are therefor closer together and may be harder to play. Does any one have any info on this? I do not want to order a guitar from Japan without trying it out and then be dissappointed in the string spacing. The guy on Harmony central said that the tokai es measures 34 mm from the outside of the first string to the outside of the 6th string. My american strat and tele measures 36.5 mm. with a 43 mm nut. From what I found on the web the actual nut width of the 335 is 40mm, 43 mm for the Lucille model.

Bottom line, does anyone have any actual measurements to calm my prepurchase jitters??
thanks folks


If no one else answers, when I get home tonight, I can measure my 335 and Tokai ES120 and ES130. I wouldn't worry about it though. The Tokai's are some of the best playing guitars I have ever owned. And I've owned a few!

Bill
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FordFanJpn
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:04 am    Post subject: measurements Reply with quote

OK, I took some measurements of a few guitars. The measurements are width and thickness of the neck at the nut and at the 12th fret, and the width of the strings from the outside of the 2 E strings, as you asked. The guitars are Tokai ES120 and ES130, Gibson ES-335, Gibson Historic '59 Les Paul, '59 ES-345, and an Epiphone Casino. Here's the chart. I hope it helps.

Bill

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togps
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bill, with compliments.
Well done.
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FordFanJpn
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

togps wrote:
Hey Bill, with compliments.
Well done.


Thank you. I hope the information proves useful to someone. I was little surprised at the difference between my two Tokai necks, as they don't really give me the impression of being different. FWIW, I think one of the important factors in neck feel is whether the edges of the fingerboard are rounded or not, i.e. whether the neck is "D" or "C" shaped. I personally prefer the "C" shape.

Bill
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jpgiancaspro
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Joined: 14 May 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, how does your tokai copy (japanese or Korean?)compare to your Gibson 335?
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FordFanJpn
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpgiancaspro wrote:
BTW, how does your tokai copy (japanese or Korean?)compare to your Gibson 335?


My ES120 and ES130 are both made in Japan, and I like them both better than the Gibson. The necks on the Tokai's are much more comfortable to play on than the Gibson. The Gibson does sound quite good, but because of that slim taper neck, it's not at all enjoyable for me to play. I'm actually considering getting rid of the 335 now.

Bill
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jpgiancaspro
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So are you saying that the Gibson sounds better? I thought that the Tokai pickups were identical to the Gibsons?
BTW how easy was it to order from Japan? Do they speak English?
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FordFanJpn
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpgiancaspro wrote:
So are you saying that the Gibson sounds better? I thought that the Tokai pickups were identical to the Gibsons?
BTW how easy was it to order from Japan? Do they speak English?


I put a lot of work into the Gibson (completely rewired with RS pots and Vitamin-Q caps, and new pickups), so it's far from stock. It does sound very good, but as I said, the neck is too thin for me.

The Tokai pickups are not bad sounding, but they are rather sterile and cold, without much (or any) harmonic complexity. I replaced the ones in my ES130 with a set of old Fralin PAF's, and I ordered a set of Antiquities for the ES120. The Antiquities are full of rich harmonics and sound great in just about any guitar. A friend of mine put a set in his ES130 and it made a good guitar into a great guitar. The Tokai pickups are definitely not identical to the Gibson pickups.

Regarding ordering from Japan, if you do a search, you'll find some discussions on this forum about ordering from Ishibashi and some other stores. I live in Tokyo so I can just go to a store and buy one!

Bill
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marcusnieman
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Joined: 22 May 2003
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I thought that the Tokai pickups were identical to the Gibsons?



Absolutely not.....they each stand on their own.

I have an early 80's Tokai ES100 J (335 model). There was also an
ES100 R. The J stood for "Jazz" and the R stood for "Rock" (thanks Gottfried!) with the difference being the pickups used for each model.
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jpgiancaspro
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Joined: 14 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I guess all this info that you all were so kind to supply is moot because there is a four month wait for a cherry Tokai es 120 according to Hiroaki from Ishibashi WEB SHOP.
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Web Surf
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Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: measurements Reply with quote

FordFanJpn wrote:




Thanks a million. This is exactly what I had been asking for last month !!!

Does this mean the ES130 is not just a new name for the ES120 ?
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FordFanJpn
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: measurements Reply with quote

Web Surf wrote:


Thanks a million. This is exactly what I had been asking for last month !!!

Does this mean the ES130 is not just a new name for the ES120 ?


I think what it means is that since there is a lot of work done by hand on those guitars, there are variations among them. Just like in the old Gibsons. By the way, I was told in the store when I bought my 130 that the 135, which replaced the 130, was going to be replaced by the 140. I haven't seen either a 135 or a 140 yet, but I was tempted to buy a 155 that they have at the same store.

Bill
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johan
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Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My ES-120 just arrived (I'll come back to you Bill).
Width at the nut 41.9 mm
I find it a bit narrow but I'll get used to it.
SWEET guitar!
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Web Surf
Sus4add11


Joined: 01 May 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johan wrote:
My ES-120 just arrived


Congratulations,

Where's da pics ?
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