laminated tops

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Brian,
Your last comments bear out my own feelings when I first raised this topic, that namely paying out for a laminated top was not perhaps a good idea for tone and is certainly not authentic for construction. Futhermore ignore the inital glamour or name on the headstock and check out the sound and feel. The Epi Les Paul I once owned was really quite good when fitted with decent pickups and still around ?400 compared to the Tokai at ?650 - ?800 in the UK. I'm not saying don't but a 'pretty' Tokai, just keep a clear head.
Incidentally I have recently purchased a new Tokai SG -solid wood, sounds and feels great.

BobW
 
Brian,
Your last comments bear out my own feelings when I first raised this topic, that namely paying out for a laminated top was not perhaps a good idea for tone and is certainly not authentic for construction. Futhermore ignore the inital glamour or name on the headstock and check out the sound and feel. The Epi Les Paul I once owned was really quite good when fitted with decent pickups and still around ?400 compared to the Tokai at ?650 - ?800 in the UK. I'm not saying don't but a 'pretty' Tokai, just keep a clear head.
Incidentally I have recently purchased a new Tokai SG -solid wood, sounds and feels great.

BobW
 
All the epi Les Paul Standards I have seen are basically alder bodied. They have a mahogany cap with just a thin veneer of flamed maple over the top of that. Obviously this cuts costs quite a bit but makes the guitar look more authentic, and I think that the epis sound thinner than a traditionally constructed les Paul (maple over mahogany). You can see what woods are used by lifting the pickups out of the body and looking at the profile inside the cavity.
I'm not going to argue with anyone about the tonal qualities of different woods, but I can't help feeling that all this talk about using N/C instead of PU or acrylic varnishes is only so much BS. I think that the truth is that generally N/C varnishes are pretty low build, so in order to get the depth of finish and gloss you have to put loads of coats on and this is pretty labour intensive therefore costly. Also N/C yellows with age which many people agree looks pretty cool. It's also not quite so flexible and so you get a bit of crazing on old guitars from constant changes in ambient temp / humidity. (Again pretty cool). PUs and acrylics are more tolerant of ambient temp / humidity changes, don't yellow as much, don't scratch as easily and a single coat is sometimes 5X thicker than can be acheived with 1 N/C coat. Obviously this means a tougher finish can be acheived more quickly and cost effectively, but in the end you're talking about a coating of less than 0.5mm on a guitar body of about 50mm. I would gladly eat my hat if somebody proved they could tell the sonic difference between 2 electric guitars identical except for the finish but I've yet to meet anybody. I mean how often do you hear somebody saying that a cherry sunburst gives a warmer tone than a tobacco burst. It's just silly isn't it? People don't buy gold tops because the aluminium flake used in the varnish imparts a brighter tone, because that would just be bollocks.
In the end I think the only justified reason for using NC varnish is that it looks and feels more vintage accurate, but let's face it, if feel was that important we'd all be using satin finished polyurethane coated guitars because they feel NICE!
Now acoustic guitars, I could tell you a thing or 2 about those........
Who's stolen my anorak?!
 
Cheers Bazza,
You're a sensible lad I can tell. I've calmed down a bit now and feel that I should point out that I am not usually prone to ranting about paint but there you go. Call it PMT or something.

Anybody fancy an argument about the tonal affect of quilt / flame tops over plain or birdseye tops?
What about multiple bindings?
 
I always felt that a butterscotch finish has a much sweeter sound than a sunburst...which is fruitier.

The N/C laquer does have 1 small advantage in that it allows the wood to "breathe" where polys don't. Tokai got around this by not totally encasing the body with lacquer - generally the pickup cavity or tremelo spring cavity are not fully painted and sealed to allow the air/smoke/temperature to continue to age the wood.
A luthier friend of mine once described polyurethane laquer as "putting the wood between 2 pieces of glass - nothing gets in and nothing changes"
Most muso's like the fact that the guitar "ages" with them, changes it's character to suit the owner, etc, etc.
All 3 laquers ( N/C, polyester, polyurethane) have their merits and pit-falls - go with what you prefer.

regards
Peter Mac
 
I've got a Les Paul (G**son) - Cherry Sunburst, Light flame, NC laquer etc.

It sounds loads better than my Tok.............. NO I can't do it I'd be lying!

It sounds sh1t when compared with my latest LS LTD!

Sorry Barry I tried

:cry:

GB
 
I actually prefer the tone of my Historic Gold Top over my Love Rock.

Any takers?
 
I'm playing around with a Heritage LP style Goldtop with the 7 layer nitro finish...and it's great sounding! I don't know how much is the pickups, or the amp, or the body wood, or the thickness of the top, but it sure sounds sweet. My major concern is how fragile the finish is compared to the plastic urethane on most production guitars. I suppose being a little bit more careful and wiping off with a cloth after playing are small prices to pay. Tone is such a subjective personal thing, when you find something you like, or a combination of things that work, it's time to stop all the BS and PLAY! It's easy for me to get carried away with all the tech details and not turn up the amp and annoy the neighbors... (what it's really all about...)
Oh yeah...I also believe there is better tone in thicker strings...
 
Lee said:
I actually prefer the tone of my Historic Gold Top over my Love Rock.

Any takers?

Lee, what model Love Rock do you have...are you actually offering it for sale?
 
Hey Ramsale Geezer,
I like your style. Fat strings rock. I personally play a custom set which goes (low to high) 52, 50, 48, 38. 38, 38.
They make my fingers hurt. :oops:
 
cornelius: That's pretty fat. I don't know if I'd have the stones for a set that thick, but it's sure the heaviest set I've ever heard of.
 
Yeah, I buy Daddy'Hairy 'O', EFH, (thats Extra f*!%king heavy).
To be honest, sometimes I have to tighten truss rods up so much to compensate for these, that the fingerboard pops off, and that can be a bit of a bummer. I'm thinking of going back to 11s instead. What do you reckon? :roll:
 
Don't do it Cornelius!

11's are for whimps!

OK with EFH's you can only play the guitar once every 3 months after the scars have healed but f@#k me that TONE!

The only problem I've had with them is with Strats - sometimes the wammy lets go and fractures my skull and the spring shoot out the back and cobble me nadgers - but for that TONE! it's worth it.

GB
 

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