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LS120's from 1981 Veneer-Gimme a break
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hans-j?rgen
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Mac wrote:
well, i'm with ochay...LS120's have solid flame tops - not veneer. They were cheaper than the LS150 because they didn't have DiMarzio pups, but the build specs are identical according to my research.

Peter, this is the thread that ochay is probably referring to:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4693

Villager mentions his Japanese guitar buyer who had translated the available 1981 and 1982 catalogs (mind you, 1980 and 1983 are not available at least on the main site yet), and on the second page of that thread Daizo also confirmed for the 1981 catalog that the LS120 would have a veneer. They both don't mention the passage and/or page where this info is included. Villager (or his guitar buyer) then draws a conclusion to 1980 and 1983 models which is a bit too quick in my opinion.

By the way, the LS120 is listed with two DiMarzio PAFs while the LS150 had one Super Distortion and one PAF at that time.

Quote:
With all these solid-vs-veneer threads, Keep in mind that like their cars and motorcycles, the Japanese would alter the specs every couple of years, try new things, drop slow models, etc.. the LS-80 and LS-100 probably had more changes to them over the course of their reign than any other model - i reacon there must be at least 6 different variations of the LS-100 from 1978 thru 1990.

And that's the problem, e.g. it's strange that a 1981 LS120 should have had a veneer while the newer 1982 didn't - according to the catalog, that is. Furthermore there might have been variations 1. throughout the year (early vs. late 1981) and 2. for the domestic Japanese market vs. export models. As you might remember, the serial number on my 1981 LS120 is a high one which you once identified as being almost from 1982 according to your list. And it was very likely made for the German distributor back then (like a few others), not for a Japanese shop.

Tokai seems to build whatever wood they have available at a certain point in time, and of course whatever the customer orders. That's why the catalog for the domestic market from year xxxx may say this or that while the actual delivered guitars do differ.

Another thing to remember is that the catalogs seem to come out much later than the guitars of a certain period and do not include all available models. For example the new catalog was published only a few weeks ago while some of the described guitars were available months in advance (SEB models in this case). The new LS150 isn't even listed there either. So the production has already proceeded while you see pictures and specs of "old" guitars trying to work out the one and only present truth.

So checking the catalogs for specs is always a good idea (that's why I suggest it so often ), but it's not the answer to all, especially for these tricky questions. In the end you have to trust the guy selling you that guitar and his photos, or your own eyes if you have that guitar in front of you. I know that you knew that already...
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luis
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Joined: 15 Sep 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Japanese industry(not only guitars) is known by changing specs of the products.They can sell at cost (or under the cost) first to introduce into the market,making the highest specs avalaible,highest in a price range over the rest of the makers.Then can changes specs in years coming to get back the money they loose,or rising the prices.It's a ususal economic tactic they see right and I feel this being very clever....

About LS150,they were offered in mid/late '05 and they were not in catalogs and it seems they will not be offered in future according some informations appeared in this forum.Maybe they will be up in price becoming another model(ie LS200 for example),I don't know for sure...These guitar have exceptional specs(the ones we all have been asked during some time and Tokai surely noticed) for an actual guitar at the prince asked,and I feel they are price below its real value).You don't have to change anything(well, except Gotoh pickups maybe).If these new series are better than old LS150 I don't know because I have not tried any old one.If we take 150.00 yens in(a say) 1.985 and applies inflaction it would be more than actual 150.00 yens and the price of the wood have rised up a lot since 80's but I would considrer a reissue in fit and finish,pickups excluding....
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Peter Mac
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Hans-Jurgen & Luis,

a lot of good points there, guys - will follow up later

Just want to mention something about the catalogs though...

i have original prints of '82, 84, 85, 86, 87, 89 plus the MAT, SRV and Spare Parts catalogs. I have JPEG's of the '78, '79 and 81 catalog pages. On the last page i have tried to determine when the catalog was printed via the copyright mark and in most cases (especially the Japanese catalogs), it seems they were printed anytime in the year.
eg: 1982 Vol 5 = Feb '82
1982 Vol 6 = Dec 82
1984 Vol 8 = Oct 83
Spares Vol 1 = July 1981

The export catalogs alas seem to be without this dating.

Hope this opens up a new line of interpretation, but remember the one thing all these catalogs have written in them
" Specifications subject to change without notice"

regards
Peter Mac
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hans-j?rgen
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Mac wrote:
On the last page i have tried to determine when the catalog was printed via the copyright mark and in most cases (especially the Japanese catalogs), it seems they were printed anytime in the year.

Yes, and sometimes the year gets mentioned on the inner pages, too, e.g. in the 1980 catalog that togps sent me to scan it.
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Didsomeonesaylespaul?
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Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting information here guys. My LS-120 does not have a solid top, it's veneer. It's still very nice, but it's veneer.
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Hutton Steel
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Joined: 20 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long may the Japanese confuse everybody so that you can continue the great solid/veneer debate. Wake me up in half an hour!
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mercman
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Just half an hour
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Hutton Steel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
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Didsomeonesaylespaul?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hutton Steel wrote:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.



Time to get up..........
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Hutton Steel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the wakeup call! I feel nice and refreshed and ready to pay attention.
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ochay
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the serial number of the LS120 with veneer?
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Didsomeonesaylespaul?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ochay wrote:
What is the serial number of the LS120 with veneer?


0008216
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ochay
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a clear pic of the veneer??
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tokaigeezer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Hutton Steel:

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Which is why I like my 80 LS60 and my 80 Reborn Old LS50. They are solid maple tops, albeit three pieces, and they have no flame (some figure though), which I think is closer to most original sunbursts anyway.

And the beat goes on .......
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Hutton Steel
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post tokaigeezer! I'll bet you have a really nice brace of guitars there. Good, well made guitars ready to serve their master. Plug 'em in and play until the sun goes down and beyond!
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