LS120's from 1981 Veneer-Gimme a break

Tokai Forum

Help Support Tokai Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ochay

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Messages
713
Reaction score
0
Location
So. Cal.
Someone mentioned that the '81 catalog says the LS120's are veneer-I have 9 1981 Love Rock LS120's -all have Solid Maple tops ( I have to check on the one I just bought-3/3/06)- Confirmed not veneer-
with so many 120's-what are the chances ????? Seems like I would have at least one veneer'd top- What a crock-

:roll:
 
THe Reborn "OLD" is the heaviest of the bunch @ 9 1/2lbs. -all the udders weight under 9 lbs. or right at 9 lbs.
 
My 1980 LS 120 Reborn Old is 9 pounds 4 oz.

127170199.jpg
 
ochay said:
You can see pics here:
http://www.lilypix.com/photos/showalbum.php?aid=3960&uuid=

Shouldn't that rather be:
http://www.lilypix.com/photos/showalbum.php?aid=3961&uuid=1257

Is it possible to give some underline description for each thumbnail (e.g. the serial numbers), because it looks as if there would be some double photos of the same guitar? And you have two other albums for your Reborns, right?

And I always wonder what you want with all those Japanese cheapos... :wink:
 
This is slightly off-topic. I don't want to start another "Solid vs Veneer" top issue, but I've found that the best way to tell the difference is not by checking the woodgrain per say in the pickup cavity, but rather by checking the bookmatch joint of the top, with the bookmatch joint in the pickup cavities. Both top and cavity joints should line up EXACTLY.... No execption here.. if they do not EXACTLY line up, that would Prove the top to be veneer. I have never seen a "lap joint", Scarf joint", or any other tpye of "angle" joint that would support the thoery of the bookmatch joint not lining up.

This is information only guys, I'm in no way putting anyone's else's methods of checking down, nor am I saying that all LS120's are veneer, so please don't misunderstand me on this.

Would you not agree Hans? I found this out the hard way on my LS120

Joe
 
Didsomeonesaylespaul? said:
This is information only guys, I'm in no way putting anyone's else's methods of checking down, nor am I saying that all LS120's are veneer, so please don't misunderstand me on this.
Would you not agree Hans? I found this out the hard way on my LS120
Sure, if the seam of the two pieces doesn't match in the cavity, too, it's obviously not a solid top. But you could also bookmatch a veneer and place it exactly over the seam of the plain maple parts underneath, so it's not 100% safe to assume a solid top by that method.

Like I've already mentioned in earlier threads, in my opinion you should try to find the graining of the annual rings (not the flames) that can be followed from the cavity wood onto the top, i.e. if the diagonal graining in the cavity corresponds to the graining on the top or not.
 
Very true Hans, it's not 100%, but it sure is an easy way to spot an off-center Veneer Top. In my experience most folks don't know enough about wood to make a true judgment call on a solid flametop. It would seem that if they (or some) see any indication of flame in the cavity they just assume it's a solid top. But anyway, I agree it's not a full proof method.
 
Hans those are all different guitars-six 1981 LS120's-
three 1980(1 "OLD", 2 Love Rock) LS120's

-did you see the Flametop '81 LS80??(is that a sweet AXE ???)

I'm missing one headstock pic in the LS120's-
I'm missing the body shot of the 80 "OLD" LS120
 
ochay said:
Hans those are all different guitars-six 1981 LS120's-
three 1980(1 "OLD", 2 Love Rock) LS120's
Yes, I realized that after looking at the full pictures, but I thought it would be possible to name the thumbnails in the overview somehow. On the other hand I haven't explored the Lilypix album possibilities yet... ;)

-did you see the Flametop '81 LS80??(is that a sweet AXE ???)
No LS80 spam in a LS120 thread please... :p I've noticed that you added more Love Rocks in that album though.
 
Your right Han's -
I just need to take the time to name everything>>>>
BTW
That LS80 is the ONLY worthy Tokai I have EVER found to close to a LS120. I'd give my Right nut B4 (left one is already gone) I sold her>>>>

:roll:
 
Hi guys,

well, i'm with ochay...LS120's have solid flame tops - not veneer. They were cheaper than the LS150 because they didn't have DiMarzio pups, but the build specs are identical according to my research.
Pre-1990 LS200's were a different kettle of fish again - a totally different set of specs to the LS120/150.
With all these solid-vs-veneer threads, Keep in mind that like their cars and motorcycles, the Japanese would alter the specs every couple of years, try new things, drop slow models, etc.. the LS-80 and LS-100 probably had more changes to them over the course of their reign than any other model - i reacon there must be at least 6 different variations of the LS-100 from 1978 thru 1990.

regards
Peter mac
 
Peter Mac said:
well, i'm with ochay...LS120's have solid flame tops - not veneer. They were cheaper than the LS150 because they didn't have DiMarzio pups, but the build specs are identical according to my research.
Peter, this is the thread that ochay is probably referring to:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4693

Villager mentions his Japanese guitar buyer who had translated the available 1981 and 1982 catalogs (mind you, 1980 and 1983 are not available at least on the main site yet), and on the second page of that thread Daizo also confirmed for the 1981 catalog that the LS120 would have a veneer. They both don't mention the passage and/or page where this info is included. Villager (or his guitar buyer) then draws a conclusion to 1980 and 1983 models which is a bit too quick in my opinion.

By the way, the LS120 is listed with two DiMarzio PAFs while the LS150 had one Super Distortion and one PAF at that time. ;)

With all these solid-vs-veneer threads, Keep in mind that like their cars and motorcycles, the Japanese would alter the specs every couple of years, try new things, drop slow models, etc.. the LS-80 and LS-100 probably had more changes to them over the course of their reign than any other model - i reacon there must be at least 6 different variations of the LS-100 from 1978 thru 1990.
And that's the problem, e.g. it's strange that a 1981 LS120 should have had a veneer while the newer 1982 didn't - according to the catalog, that is. Furthermore there might have been variations 1. throughout the year (early vs. late 1981) and 2. for the domestic Japanese market vs. export models. As you might remember, the serial number on my 1981 LS120 is a high one which you once identified as being almost from 1982 according to your list. And it was very likely made for the German distributor back then (like a few others), not for a Japanese shop.

Tokai seems to build whatever wood they have available at a certain point in time, and of course whatever the customer orders. That's why the catalog for the domestic market from year xxxx may say this or that while the actual delivered guitars do differ. :-?

Another thing to remember is that the catalogs seem to come out much later than the guitars of a certain period and do not include all available models. For example the new catalog was published only a few weeks ago while some of the described guitars were available months in advance (SEB models in this case). The new LS150 isn't even listed there either. So the production has already proceeded while you see pictures and specs of "old" guitars trying to work out the one and only present truth. :roll:

So checking the catalogs for specs is always a good idea (that's why I suggest it so often ;) ), but it's not the answer to all, especially for these tricky questions. In the end you have to trust the guy selling you that guitar and his photos, or your own eyes if you have that guitar in front of you. I know that you knew that already... ;)
 
Japanese industry(not only guitars) is known by changing specs of the products.They can sell at cost (or under the cost) first to introduce into the market,making the highest specs avalaible,highest in a price range over the rest of the makers.Then can changes specs in years coming to get back the money they loose,or rising the prices.It's a ususal economic tactic they see right and I feel this being very clever....

About LS150,they were offered in mid/late '05 and they were not in catalogs and it seems they will not be offered in future according some informations appeared in this forum.Maybe they will be up in price becoming another model(ie LS200 for example),I don't know for sure...These guitar have exceptional specs(the ones we all have been asked during some time and Tokai surely noticed) for an actual guitar at the prince asked,and I feel they are price below its real value).You don't have to change anything(well, except Gotoh pickups maybe).If these new series are better than old LS150 I don't know because I have not tried any old one.If we take 150.00 yens in(a say) 1.985 and applies inflaction it would be more than actual 150.00 yens and the price of the wood have rised up a lot since 80's but I would considrer a reissue in fit and finish,pickups excluding....
 
Hi Hans-Jurgen & Luis,

a lot of good points there, guys - will follow up later

Just want to mention something about the catalogs though...

i have original prints of '82, 84, 85, 86, 87, 89 plus the MAT, SRV and Spare Parts catalogs. I have JPEG's of the '78, '79 and 81 catalog pages. On the last page i have tried to determine when the catalog was printed via the copyright mark and in most cases (especially the Japanese catalogs), it seems they were printed anytime in the year.
eg: 1982 Vol 5 = Feb '82
1982 Vol 6 = Dec 82
1984 Vol 8 = Oct 83
Spares Vol 1 = July 1981

The export catalogs alas seem to be without this dating.

Hope this opens up a new line of interpretation, but remember the one thing all these catalogs have written in them
" Specifications subject to change without notice"

regards
Peter Mac
 
Peter Mac said:
On the last page i have tried to determine when the catalog was printed via the copyright mark and in most cases (especially the Japanese catalogs), it seems they were printed anytime in the year.
Yes, and sometimes the year gets mentioned on the inner pages, too, e.g. in the 1980 catalog that togps sent me to scan it.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top