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tokai for investment
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mike martin
Guitar God


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:36 am    Post subject: tokai for investment Reply with quote

hi
i am a bit puzzled by all the hype for all original tokais, everyone wants all the original parts on them, i myself wont use any other axe except toks
but i find it hard to believe that they will ever get near the older fender or gibsons in value, as they are totaly ridiculas in price, esp the 70's 3 bolt type , i never played a good one. i really cant say that about tokais as i have never played a bad one, but at the end of the day(i hate that saying)
they are still copies of the fenders and gibbos, so why bother about all original guitars.any way almost ever one will put new pickups, also unles its never played i cant see the pots and swicthes lasting forever. you can only clean them so much then the need replacing. so in goes better pickups and better pots the guitar benifits your sound gets a huge improvement, so what gives with it all or am i just on my own where this is concerned. anyhow i have just put kinman woodstocks in my springy
i just cant believe the sound of these. com on guys enlighten me
mike
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brad347
Guitar God


Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

re: tokais gaining value in the vintage market:

Stranger things have happened.

re: putting new pickups in if they sound better to you:

These things were made to be played first and foremost. Do it!
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hans-j?rgen
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 1740
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1
_________________
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"
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mike martin
Guitar God


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep
want to invest. buy diamonds. gold, silver or a 62 strat. want to play guitar buy a tokai
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gassyndrome
Guitar God


Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always find it odd that people talk about guitars as a potential investment? Theres no sense to it, even with a 59 sunburst LP. If you had have put the 500 pounds (?) a 59 LP was worth in 1959 in the bank/stocks/property trusts, let it sit there for 50 years compounding interest, I would guess you would probably be ahead by now anyway. And that is the holy grail of guitars. Anything less than that and your dreaming. LAte 50's strats and 60's 335's are only worth a fraction of that again. Anything made in the last 30 years is a complete waste of time, and Tokais???? As if.......great guitars, but they wont be worth squat.

In short, love them and play the ^&*( out of them, but if your interested in money there are a hell of a lot of better things to do with it.
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villager
Guitar God


Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3508
Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on quality terms....a gibson historic, would be about ?2200..a really high spec lets say early(79-83) LS-120, which in my opinion is as good as most nice historics, and a lot rarer,...would be less than half that...great old tokais are getting harder to find, and prices will rise, as the quality of them makes them still a lot of guitar for the money...plus they are 25 years old now ..and that is worth a lot to some people..
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luis
Guitar God


Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 2311
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on the opinion Tokai are for musicians,not for investiment.
I'm very surprised about price comanding old Tokai Reborns and I can't unerderstand..or maybe I can....Vintage guitars hace scalated so high that the rest of old guitars have scalated in price too....I rememeber when I could buy a LS80 Reborn in 40.000 yen like new
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Skybone
Guitar God


Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 504
Location: South Yorkshire, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, old Ibanez used to be in the same boat, but in the past few years, their prices have rocketed so much that they're being snapped up by collectors instead of players. Unfortunately, I think good examples of older Tokai's are heading in the same direction.

You can still pick up some great examples at "bargain" prices, but I do get the impression that the buzz is going to take over the market place in the not too distant future and the collectors'll move in...

Which kind of defeats the object of Tokai's instruments in the first place (for me at least), by being good solid, dependable instruments built for players.

All IMO o'course...
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mgdew
Guitar God


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

unfortunately, this brings up a very true old adage...

Something is worth whatever the next person is willing to pay for it... if people are willing to pay high prices for tokai's then the prices will rise. If we all decided to not buy them then sales would start, prices would drop as standard to create a business turnover..
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pault1607
Plucker


Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:09 pm    Post subject: Investments Reply with quote

I bought my beautiful Pearl Pink Goldstar in 1985. Paid ?200 (approx) for it. If it's now worth ?400 I'd be pleased (?500 very pleased, ?600 delighted) - but I don't want to sell it - I don't play it as much as I should, but still want to keep it.

If I'd bought ?200 worth of gold in '85 it would now be worth ?1600.

Music.....money...music....money....you decide
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benpaul
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simple answer ...music...
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magentaplacenta
Guitar God


Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe older, quality Tokai guitars WILL increase in value simply because their originators will become out of reach for your average guitarist. Early 70 Fenders are fetching 3-4k, mid-late 2-3k. I even see people trying to get 1k for early 80s, especially the "Dan Smith" '82 year, I think it is. Just check out ebay.

As Fenders go through the roof simply because they're Fenders (more importantly "vintage"), more people will look to alternatives because they can't afford the "real" thing.

Just look at Reborns, don't those sell for more now than they did when they were brand new? Who is buying them? People who can't/don't want to drop 2-3x for whatever Gibby.
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brad347
Guitar God


Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw an ST-80 go for $1100 on Ebay.... it's already beginning.
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bear925
Plucker


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 12
Location: Georgia- USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad- You're right- The older Tokai Reborn models are bringing more! Last week I was watching on line as an ebay dealer from Singapore (Flex-ABC) sold a nice mint Reborn with the tan/pink case for $1999 US. That's getting into some serious collector money. There's one more for sale right now I know of, a nice 82 Love Rock for $1899. Several are in $1300-1600 price range. Here in the U.S. the old Gibson's and Fender's from 50's-60's have gotten so far over priced, that sadly- the only people buying them are investment dabblers- not real musicians. Which means they won't be played, heard, and enjoyed- they'll go into bank vaults. Some of the real honest to goodness "rock stars" are selling their old Les Paul's to enhance their retirement portifolio; and the touring big name stars today don't dare take real 58-59 Les Paul's on the road anymore- they take copies-Historics. It's my very humble opinion that if you want a nice Tokai Japan-made guitar, which is a closer copy of a real 57-58-59-60 Les Paul than gibson can make- you beter get one soon, or be prepared to pay more. It's the simple law of supply and demand. Bear
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brad347
Guitar God


Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's sad but true. The good thing is, it's all part of a natural process. It keeps things fresh and new... if these instruments were in reach of players, then everyone would play one and it would become a 'standard' which is taken for granted... the best art has always been made when the artists had to stretch a little, look for new things. Yesterday it was 58-60 Les Pauls, tomorrow who knows? Just look at Kurdt Cobain using the jaguar/mustang guitars because they were cheaper than strats and teles and they consequently became very valid instruments in their own right for a certain type of sound. Same with his use of the old "cheap" E-H effects.

Musicians will always use what's available and in the process it becomes an integral facet of the art, not the other way around.
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