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Tokai Ls80 1978 with funny thing on neck
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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.E.M. wrote:
guitar hiro wrote:
aroomstudios wrote:
So, what is the sound difference in the 2 piece neck vs a traditional one piece? Was this just done to make the neck stronger? Or was is cheaper to do?


if the join is properly done likely no difference in sound; two piece could actually be a more stable neck

two piece neck is cheaper to construct because larger bits of lumber are not required


Strictly from a wood engineering point of view - which we know doesn't mean all that much to guitarists, this thread being an example...

* a 2 piece laminated neck is stronger and more stable, that's why they do it.

* considering the grain needs to be opposing or mirrored in the halves for best results, you can't just put any two pieces of wood together in a neck, so the idea of using smaller pieces or scraps making it cheaper to build is wrong... cutting, selecting, gluing up and machining a neck takes longer than just machining one from a 1 piece blank, again it's done because it's stronger and more importantly it's more stable.



but then, one would likely ponder the notion that Tokai Gakki only utilized this two piece neck construction technique for a few months of the first year of LS production, and why was that, considering the total time of LS production has been nearly 40 years

if Tokai Gakki utilized this production technique for basically < 1% of the total time they have been producing LS examples, and considering as you claim the technique is utilized for a more stable & stronger construction, then why would Tokai Gakki NOT utilize said construction for the other 99% of LS production for the past nearly 40 years?

Obviously, there is another, different explanation, than what you state
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J.E.M.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First difference is that as I mentioned, two piece is more labor intensive and for the reasons noted that extra cannot always be offset by material savings.

The other difference is that as Tokai and others in Japan lead up to the glory days of 78 to 84, they tried to make replicas as closel as possible to the Gibsons/Fenders, a move which which resulted in said glory days.

The switch over was from knock offs made from pictures to replicas built from examples in hand.

All sorts of different things can be found on guitars from this time period, the first Springy's had smaller neck plates etc etc

Up to 79 the Greco LP's 700 and up were pancake construction with 3pc Maple necks like the Norlin Gibsons of the 70's - Following that the Super Real series brought in 1 piece Mahogany necks.
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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, as stated previously, if Tokai Gakki was under the impression that a two piece neck was actually the way to go then we would have seen that on LS models for the past ~40 years, but that was not the case

don't know how Springy's, Greco LP's, Norlin Gibsons, or Super Real have anything to do with the concept of Tokai LS examples having a two piece, or a 1 piece neck
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adoring_fan107
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

villager wrote:
yes because you don't pay anywhere near the rate of import duty that we in Europe have to suffer.... it works out overall at 25% of the guitar and shipping costs!! so obviously if you buy a guitar which is already in Europe then the seller has already paid these costs to get it there, which is why it is expensive for people in the USA or Oz to buy from Europe as opposed to buying from each other or Japan...


Thats what I was trying to say... Location when buying guitars is very key. In Australia Japanese replicas are popular compare to the US as a new LP standard here is approaching 5000 AUD
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adoring_fan107
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two piece neck was probably just an experimented in those early days. Prototypes of any guitar having changing specs especially in the first few months. The burst Tokai modelled off may have been used a few months after they started building the LS series, who knows?
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villager
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats what I was trying to say... Location when buying guitars is very key. In Australia Japanese replicas are popular compare to the US as a new LP standard here is approaching 5000 AUD

a standard ? or a historic?

standards are around 2600 aud in europe but historics are silly money
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adoring_fan107
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.allansbillyhyde.com.au/prod/LPS17HSCH1/Gibson-Les-Paul-Standard-T-Electric-Guitar-(Heritage-Cherry-Sunburst).aspx

Maybe a bit less, but still huge money when i got my LS 200 for 4500 2 years ago thats a far better guitar. Here used historics are around 6000 used and 10-12000 new
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adoring_fan107
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Used are around 3000 for an lp standard
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villager
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mad prices...
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adoring_fan107
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MIJs are everywhere down here
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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibson Historic prices are obscene, even for used; MIJ =
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J.E.M.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

guitar hiro wrote:
well, as stated previously, if Tokai Gakki was under the impression that a two piece neck was actually the way to go then we would have seen that on LS models for the past ~40 years, but that was not the case

don't know how Springy's, Greco LP's, Norlin Gibsons, or Super Real have anything to do with the concept of Tokai LS examples having a two piece, or a 1 piece neck


Tokai probably was under the impression that 2 piece is better, because strictly from an engineering point it is better, stronger and more stable is generally considered to be better than less strong and less stable.

It is also the reason Gibson did it under Norlin, the reason Greco Fujigen Matsuomoku and so many others did and still do it, the reason every industry building from wood does it to this day.

And your post is the reason it stopped - you cannot explain wood and engineering to most musicians because they either do not care or they do not understand or they think that wood performs differently in an instrument... try to understand the reason Gibson 1 pc Mahogany headstocks snap, and their 3 pc Maple headstocks do not is engineering - the reason Gibson headstocks keep snapping off to this day is... wait for it... musicians.
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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only assume why Tokai Gakki went the route of a 1 piece neck; possibly they were attempting to make the neck (visually) vintage correct?

I do like the visual of the one piece neck as it does 'look' vintage correct compared to a 2 piece neck.


on another subject; I have often wondered why Tokai Gakki never utilized a long tenon for the (vintage) LS models a typically unseen attribute
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