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What model could that be?

 
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Patryk
Plucker


Joined: 17 Jul 2017
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: What model could that be? Reply with quote

Hello everyone!

Photos:
https://www.yogile.com/4ml6szu2#21t


I got this one from ebay recently and I'm wondering what model it might be?
It's definitely made in China. Since it's inked on the back of the headstock, but I always used to think that the Chinese ones had only stickers. Next things wondering me are that body of it is definitely not alder (which I was reading in a few places Chinese body's are made of). It rather looks like mahogany to me. I compared on scraped to raw wood place in cavity and it looks kinda the same color and is as porous. As you can see on snapped neck the raw wood is very visible. And diagonal routing which I thought appears only on Japanese made Tokai's? I looked for some hints under pickups, nothing there. Next thing is the top. Very plain as you see and it's one piece. Thick, no veneer. I actually don't think I ever saw a plaintop Love Rock from China. Besides this one. I think also someone replaced the tuners. Do the pickups look like they belong this guitar? I will be thankful for any hints, since it doesn't remind any Tokai that is available to buy right now. Its quite beat up which is not very visible on pics (besides of headstock) lots of dings. Also on the neck. I'm thinking of keeping that one and would be grateful for any info. Thanks!
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mdvineng
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 27 Jun 2017
Posts: 26
Location: manchester

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

see this for starters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMz38oymGO4

i'm not going to ask why you bought a snapped neck guitar
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ibicus
Guitar God


Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 149
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Price for the headstock repair is higher than the value of this guitar...
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Patryk
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Joined: 17 Jul 2017
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, thanks for response.

For starters i know the differences between standard models (from Japan, Korea and China), as it could be visible from the way the question was asked. Cause this one is not a usual model. Since it's all Mahogany, not maple/basswood or maple/alder and has diagonal pickup channel routing But thanks anyways.

I picked that one because i have some sort of weakness for beat up guitars that need some love, and sometimes i like to pimp one between guitars of other people that i fix for money. My friend told me about the "nice and helpful" forum he found dedicated Tokai guitars. Sounded like logical idea to ask here.

Next thing is that i won't even comment the attitude that a repair is more expensive than this guitar. I'm wondering what kind of helpful content on a forum is that supposed to be?Besides i think that everyone can decide for themselves how much something is worth for them. Tho I'm actually wondering who takes for a headstock repair more than a 500 quid?? (i dont mean setting in a new neck..).

Anyway i think I got my info from outside this "nice and helpful" forum and i decided to post it here in case someone else will look for some info about made in China inked "Made in China" under finish models (most have stickers).

It appears that those come from English distributor and as a custom orders are made for that distributor. With some custom features. Just like some short Japanese series they (Brits) also have. At last from time to time. Available only in the UK or online. And i think that the newer custom ordered ones have now stickers too. I guess the ones with inked MiC didn't sell that well..
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Paladin2019
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Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1970
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patryk wrote:
Tho I'm actually wondering who takes for a headstock repair more than a 500 quid?? (i dont mean setting in a new neck..).


Where in the world did you get a figure of 500 from? Even in good condition that's a 200 guitar at best.
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ibicus
Guitar God


Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 149
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patryk wrote:
Hi, thanks for response.

For starters i know the differences between standard models (from Japan, Korea and China), as it could be visible from the way the question was asked. Cause this one is not a usual model. Since it's all Mahogany, not maple/basswood or maple/alder and has diagonal pickup channel routing But thanks anyways.

I picked that one because i have some sort of weakness for beat up guitars that need some love, and sometimes i like to pimp one between guitars of other people that i fix for money. My friend told me about the "nice and helpful" forum he found dedicated Tokai guitars. Sounded like logical idea to ask here.

Next thing is that i won't even comment the attitude that a repair is more expensive than this guitar. I'm wondering what kind of helpful content on a forum is that supposed to be?Besides i think that everyone can decide for themselves how much something is worth for them. Tho I'm actually wondering who takes for a headstock repair more than a 500 quid?? (i dont mean setting in a new neck..).

Anyway i think I got my info from outside this "nice and helpful" forum and i decided to post it here in case someone else will look for some info about made in China inked "Made in China" under finish models (most have stickers).

It appears that those come from English distributor and as a custom orders are made for that distributor. With some custom features. Just like some short Japanese series they (Brits) also have. At last from time to time. Available only in the UK or online. And i think that the newer custom ordered ones have now stickers too. I guess the ones with inked MiC didn't sell that well..


My intention was not to offend you.Sorry for the case I did.I just wrote what I was thinking.I bought one guitar once that came with a broken headstock as well and the break was very similar.Straight broken with the fibers cutted the same way.One renowned luthier told me even if it would be possible and he didn't think so it makes no sense to repair it and it was a 1500 euro guitar...that was my thought when I saw the pics.Of course you can do with your money whatever you want.Good luck.
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Patryk
Plucker


Joined: 17 Jul 2017
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Where in the world did you get a figure of 500 from? Even in good condition that's a 200 guitar at best.

Very simply. Go to ebay.
Here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tokai-UALC60-WR-Les-Paul-Custom-Wine-Red-/172779335195?hash=item283a736e1b:g:LwwAAOSwFlxZZ7yP

Yes, it's not a resale value, but as i said I meant to keep it.
And to get one i would have to pay what the special ordered mahogany bodied ones in UK cost.

Quote:
My intention was not to offend you.


I know! And I didn't feel that way. What I meant was that saying "trash it" (in other way) was not very constructive. I know that there is some famed luthiers who want a lot for anything,but my advice would be actually to look who knows how to do his work, not necasarily someone "famous". You always have to pay "famous tax" there. I know that it also might be not that easy to find a person like that.

Just like with Apple gear repairs. some people do it actually for half the price and well. Often better option than trash bin. Who had Apple he knows probably.

And in a way i have to agree with you, cause in my opinon it's rather expensive type of break and requires some splines because of very small area of gluing so probably i would price it for 150-200 euro if i would do it for somebody else.
But since i didn't 'do" any guitar for myself since a while i don't have to count my private time in euros.

@ibicus, If you didnt trash the 1500euro guitar maybe not everything is lost yet
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ibicus
Guitar God


Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 149
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the luthier said not he want 500 but there is no way to repair anymore the damaged neck.Will attach a pic if I find it so you can see how damaged it was.It was not me but the postal service who ruined the guitar.Good for me was that the seller refunded the money because of the shipping insurance.The guitar went back to him and I guess she is not existimg anymore...I agree with you that splines are needed to fix this issue but then you never can be sure if things like sound and sustain are after the repair as good as before.

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Paladin2019
Guitar God


Joined: 06 Sep 2002
Posts: 1970
Location: Cardiff, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patryk wrote:


Yes, it's not a resale value, but as i said I meant to keep it.
And to get one i would have to pay what the special ordered mahogany bodied ones in UK cost.



That's crazy. Anyone in the market for that type of guitar would be much better off buying a used MIJ.
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Patryk
Plucker


Joined: 17 Jul 2017
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That's crazy. Anyone in the market for that type of guitar would be much better off buying a used MIJ.


And when did you found last time working, without problems, used MiJ for 500? LOL



Quote:
no way to repair anymore the damaged neck


Seriously? I think he just didn't want to take the repair for some of his own reasons.
Looks bad, but looking at it i would say two ways:

splines (from the back or from the top (under fretboard and headstock veneer), best way with a thing called backstrap (google). Done nice looks great, some fancier luthiers do install backstraps on handmade instruments. If thick adds lots of strength. Again done well looks luxurious.
can be thin veneer, thick piece of nice wood, layered....

or just a scarf joint.

If its about sound I honestly didn't hear ever any negative influence after a repair done properly. By properly i mean no gaps in joints, no superglue, no shoe glue kind of stuff.. Especially that therei s no frets anymore. Secondary I'm with luthiers claiming that glue is "brighter" in sound (5pc neck should never give mud) and i don't think it is any negative kind of brightness.

Whoever want can have different opinion, but there is good guitars, that do sound good and have scarf joints since the day they were made. Less prone to break btw.

Tho If that was a new guitar and badly packed or badly delivered your choice was right - not your problem to solve. Not what you paid for.
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