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New Love Rock Custom
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togps
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 2043
Location: Bavaria, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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lemmy loud
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zbillster2 wrote:
Finally got an email from Reverb support ... I sent them all the details I have and they will work to get a full refund including shipping costs. Fingers crossed.


The guitar pictured for the black one is actually a Tokai. The one you get is entirely something else. What happened to you is what happened to me item for item. Was your support agent Nate?
I would ask him why Music Express is alllowed to sell them knowing they are fakes . . .
the cherryburst one is the one you will get, but also, you see in the picture, it is clearly a fake. The inlay is not only totally wrong, it has a little break/flaw in it that you can see from the next county.
Good luck!
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togps
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
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Location: Bavaria, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The guitar pictured for the black one is actually a Tokai.


link please
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lemmy loud
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

togps wrote:
Quote:
The guitar pictured for the black one is actually a Tokai.


link please


Very strange, I tried to attach the link at lunch time but my phone (Windows)
would not let my reply to this forum, so, at home now, I go to attach the link,
and they have taken the black one that we are talking about down! It was there
at 12:30, gone now!
But, here is one that is left, this one is obviously a fake, look at the font and the
inlay. Fail . . . Looks like a kid cut it out of paper.
https://reverb.com/item/2530403-tokai-love-rock-custom-cherry-red-electric-guitar-new

But, the complaints on the black ones must have made them rethink leaving it up.
But, if you look at them, they are all fake. Anything Tokai on the site is not real.
The colors alone make them easy to fakespot.

..::: EDIT :::..
Ok, weird, this came up in my Facebook ad feed. This is the one we replied to:
https://reverb.com/item/1314946-tokai-love-rock-custom-black-electric-guitar-new-with-hard-case
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togps
Guitar God


Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 2043
Location: Bavaria, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All Tokai guitars, listed by Music Express Canada on REVERB, are Fakais!
Be aware!
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zbillster2
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made screenshots of the Reverb ad of the black Tokai Custom that I bought the "guitar" from, in case he takes Music Express Canada takes them down, for evidence of his expilict claims that you'll get the guitar pictured.

Oh, and when I was asking him questions about it, he said "it's the last black one." Well, apparently NOT since you're still advertising guitars for sale! What a sleezebag!

So, I'm compiling a list of TRUSTED Japanese guitar sellers, because I don't want to get burned again. Primarily on ebay:
1. greatjapaneseguy
2. finestmusic
3. ookini55

Feel free to add more!
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zbillster2
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update on my Reverb/Music Express Canada Fakai transaction:
=======================================
1. Money refunded to my credit card.
2. Return shipping costs credited to my PayPay account.
3. Got a response from Tokai Gakki -- they will show the China production manager the photos I sent them of the Fakai and will get back to me.
4. It's time to leave feedback on Reverb!
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Tokai LP Custom | Wine Red | China
Tokai Love Rock | Blackburst | Korea
I love my Greg Bennett Avion, Royale & LaSalle!
1996 Orville Black Beauty coming soon
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bluejeannot
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done!Stamp out the F ing Fakais!
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zbillster2
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 27 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And this confirmation from Tokai Gakki after examining photos of the guitar. I also posted a warning in the sightings forum:

Dear Mr.Bill,

Sorry for my late reply.

We discern the guitar is counterfeit.

I do not want them(the shops/ and its Chinese Supplier) any hint to recognize the authenticity/counterfeit,

So I cannot give you the points to discern the counterfeit.

Besides, we are not allowed to export our set-neck models to North America.

I do not recommend that you buy Tokai set-neck models in your area.

I hope the info helps you.

Best Regards
--------------------------------------
Kosuke Ban

Tokai Gakki Co. Ltd.
2-26-10 Enshuhama, Minami-ku,
Hamamatsu,Japan 430-0835

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Also known as zbillster.
Tokai LP Custom | Wine Red | China
Tokai Love Rock | Blackburst | Korea
I love my Greg Bennett Avion, Royale & LaSalle!
1996 Orville Black Beauty coming soon
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zbillster2
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 27 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And by the way ... it is IMPOSSIBLE to post feedback with less than four stars on the Reverb forum!

You can't hit send ... it prompts you to contact the seller to "work it out"! So I gave Music Express Canada "four stars for being a fraud!" and details of the deception.

Which means ... you can't trust the feedback system on Reverb. What a joke!
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Tokai LP Custom | Wine Red | China
Tokai Love Rock | Blackburst | Korea
I love my Greg Bennett Avion, Royale & LaSalle!
1996 Orville Black Beauty coming soon
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lemmy loud
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zbillster2 wrote:
And by the way ... it is IMPOSSIBLE to post feedback with less than four stars on the Reverb forum!

You can't hit send ... it prompts you to contact the seller to "work it out"! So I gave Music Express Canada "four stars for being a fraud!" and details of the deception.

Which means ... you can't trust the feedback system on Reverb. What a joke!


Good work Billzter~
Im with ya on Reverb. They keep letting the guy sell obvious fakes.
I just dont get it. I will never use them again because of this. You can see all the buyers
who purchased the fakias. We should send them all messages to check the provenance
if their guitars. When Reverb has to broker 25-30 refunds, that might encourage them to
not aide and abet the fraud.
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danoverb
Plucker


Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey all,

Dan here from Reverb HQ. I just was alerted about this thread and wanted to chime into say that all of these offended fakes have been removed from the site.

OP - if you have not heard back from our support team confirming your refund, please feel free to PM me here so I can make sure that gets sorted out ASAP.

Thanks all.
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funkilius
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Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 192
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feel The Power....
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zbillster2
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danoverb wrote:
Hey all,

Dan here from Reverb HQ. I just was alerted about this thread and wanted to chime into say that all of these offended fakes have been removed from the site.

OP - if you have not heard back from our support team confirming your refund, please feel free to PM me here so I can make sure that gets sorted out ASAP.

Thanks all.


Dan, while I appreciate your follow-up and removal of the counterfeits from your site, I am still inclined to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau against your company for deceptive business practices. I see your company has had about 13 filed BBB complaints already:

https://www.bbb.org/chicago/business-reviews/musical-instruments-supplies-and-accessories/reverb-inc-in-chicago-il-88654144

The current mechanics of your seller feedback system makes it IMPOSSIBLE to leave any feedback of less than 4 stars, preventing burned customers from warning would-be buyers like myself ... I checked the feedback of the seller (Music Express Canada) before committing to purchase, and of course all I would see is 4 star ratings or higher. Had I seen anything less, I would have not risked the purchase.

That is deceptive feedback about a company. Allowing only glowing ratings to be published is not communicating accurate information about the seller's integrity and service ... and leads to misplaced buyer's trust. This is not how competing sites like eBay function.

Instead, it was through the efforts of members of this forum, like lemmy and myself, to alert potential customers ... and finally, in a roundabout way, prompt your company to removing the ad for counterfeit Tokai guitars that kept running after a double-digit number of customers already got burned ... many of them still in ignorance of the fraud, and who may unfortunately discover it to their dismay when they try to sell or trade their "guitar."

Lemmy had purchased his fake guitar from the same ad that I did mine about a month earlier ... despite his communication with Reverb about the deception, your company allowed the deception to continue ... thus leaving the ad live for me to become a fraud victim also.

It was only by seeing Lemmy's post of the ad, and recognizing it as the same ad I purchased my "guitar" from, that I was able to start the wheels in motion to get full refunds on my purchase and return shipping.

What I did NOT get reimbursed for is my lost time packing, filling out customs forms, wiring emails, gas to the post office, communications with Tokai Gakki and forum members ... all because your company allowed these deceptions to continue despite warnings from past customers.
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Also known as zbillster.
Tokai LP Custom | Wine Red | China
Tokai Love Rock | Blackburst | Korea
I love my Greg Bennett Avion, Royale & LaSalle!
1996 Orville Black Beauty coming soon
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carl300367
Guitar God


Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 82
Location: england

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is this the same seller and or fake ~?

https://reverb.com/item/4512401-tokai-love-rock-gold-top
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