Identity of MIJ Love Rock: Possible trade situation

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Brow said:
You can see where it's a proper maple cap, but as for if it's a veneer; I don't think it is as I'd expect more symmetry on the flame if it was, but I'm no expert and I'll admit that! :lol:

All MIJ Tokais have a maple cap, that was never in question. You have to match up the join line and the grain lines in the cavity and on the top to see if it's solid or veneer. The join line looks good on the top picture, and the wiring looks original. That's certainly a long tenon too.

So the question is, what's going on with the lack of fret edge binding? And why is there nothing written where there clearly should be in the cavity? This is all very odd and combined with Fastfreddy's near-fanatical contributions to this thread I'm very wary of the whole situation.
 
Paladin2019 said:
Brow said:
You can see where it's a proper maple cap, but as for if it's a veneer; I don't think it is as I'd expect more symmetry on the flame if it was, but I'm no expert and I'll admit that! :lol:

All MIJ Tokais have a maple cap, that was never in question. You have to match up the join line and the grain lines in the cavity and on the top to see if it's solid or veneer. The join line looks good on the top picture, and the wiring looks original. That's certainly a long tenon too.

So the question is, what's going on with the lack of fret edge binding? And why is there nothing written where there clearly should be in the cavity? This is all very odd and combined with Fastfreddy's near-fanatical contributions to this thread I'm very wary of the whole situation.

I have the same guitar no fret edge binding.

The guitar in this thread ? It's quite obviously not a veneer .
The flame runs down the full depth of the maple cap and it is clearly visible in picture that shows the inside of the pickup cavity.

I haven't seen anything that actually confirms it is a two piece back . Where did that come from ? That seems to be pure speculation at the moment based on the OP comment that he thought it MIGHT be.

I have a tokai here in my house that's pretty much identical to this one pictured in this thread and it is a flamed maple cap and the flame runs into the full depth of the cap visible in the pickup cavity it has no veneer it has a one piece back and NO fret edge binding and it is an LS150 made for the UK market with the dimple in the headstock bought from Coda.... Or actually now I think about it ..it might of been bought from rich tone

I don't understand why there is any confusion over the fret edge binding.

Also I dont think there us anything to be wary of the OP didn't come here to sell this guitar. I think you are trying to make something out of nothing.

I'm my opinion FWIW
Anyone who claims to be capable of identifying a guitar and then does so incorrectly and then characterises themselves as "just one of the most senior and experienced members" is MORE than just little bit full of themselves.

When that person then goes onto to characterise someone who challenges them by calling the person who challenged them insolent and an impertinent upstart
Well lets just say Some people here REALLY need to get over themselves...
 
I have a non export LS150 F. It was some kind of special run or whatever for 2004 onwards. There' a thread somewhere on here about them. Mine happens to be a 2005, and although it has a solid two piece flamed maple top and a one piece back. It has no fret edge binding. It also doesn't have a model number in either pup cavity. This guitar in the OP is from 2015 so anything is possible really, special run ?? maybe it's just a streak in the mahogany that makes it looks like a two piece back ??. I'll be the first to admit that i thought the top was a veneer. Just by eyeballing a picture. It does seem to be a solid flamed top now that i see the new pictures. It is a very uniform flamed top compared to mine, which is the only one i have on hand to make a comparison.I suppose it proves that a good picture is worth a thousand words.
 
I just read through this thread, funny stuff. :)

First you need to know what models Tokai currently make considering it's a 2014/2015 model.
This guitar was either a LS150F AAA and a LS200F AAAAA...both of which are currently offered by Tokai.

First thing to check when this thread started was, does it have brass saddles, aluminum tailpiece, CTS pots (stiffer feeling than MIJ pots), and Sprague Orange Drops...Premium Series specs.
If yes then that's all you needed to know to identify it as a LS150F AAA.

A current Vintage Series LS115F looks identical to a LS150F AAA (actually it looks better), you'll struggle to see the join on the body of the LS115F, it's easier just to check for Premium Series specs which will take a few seconds.

However it could have been a LS200F AAAAA, but it's not because the flame on a current 5A is different...this is a 3A flametop LS150F...it's now a stock model made by Tokai even though it won't appear in a catalog.

Here is current Tokai 3A Flamed Maple

3A_1_zpsgqkcm0lk.jpg


3A%202_zps1c5xbmer.jpg


5A flamed maple

5A_1_zpsk0hw0vit.jpg


5A_2_zpsioqtdscm.jpg
 
Kipple said:
I haven't seen anything that actually confirms it is a two piece back . Where did that come from ? That seems to be pure speculation at the moment based on the OP comment that he thought it MIGHT be.
The evidence is there in the pictures - for me it has a two piece back unless I see some more close up pics to prove that it is one piece.

That is my only issue with saying the guitar is part of the "Premium Series" and that I can not understand how Tokai can make a solid flame top LS premium series guitar for 150k Yen when the first level of the premium series is a plain top at a higher price than that. Well, unless they are making savings elsewhere such as a two piece back.

The question, should a premium series LS have a two piece back? That's all. I just want to know.
 
JVsearch said:
Kipple said:
I haven't seen anything that actually confirms it is a two piece back . Where did that come from ? That seems to be pure speculation at the moment based on the OP comment that he thought it MIGHT be.
The evidence is there in the pictures - for me it has a two piece back unless I see some more close up pics to prove that it is one piece.

That is my only issue with saying the guitar is part of the "Premium Series" and that I can not understand how Tokai can make a solid flame top LS premium series guitar for 150k Yen when the first level of the premium series is a plain top at a higher price than that. Well, unless they are making savings elsewhere such as a two piece back.

The question, should a premium series LS have a two piece back? That's all. I just want to know.

Well....
I think there is a maybe point of confusion here.
This guitar headstock has the dimple so it is a ULS model

Tokai themselves confirmed it is a Tokai ULS150

The ULS150 is a premium series made for sale in the UK and it is definitely a solid flame maple top one piece back just check a UK dealer spec
ULS150 is actually priced 266k yen

Regarding the back I'm not saying you are wrong but it is speculation
I don't think the pics prove anything one way or the other with regards to establishing if it's one piece or two piece back as the pic is so poor.

What the pics do prove however is that it is definitely a solid flametop not a veneer and I don't see Tokai currently making any solid flame top with a two piece back.. So a solid flame top would be a ULS150
But hey who knows they could of maybe it's a model not listed in their current catalogue. I've not seen another one though.

I think the clear evidence of a solid flame top should at least suggest just based on common sense and their current catalogue specs that it would be a ULS150 a one piece back...

Plus the guitar pictured in this thread perfectly matches the current spec offered by Tokai and I have the same guitar at home a ULS150 same spec ,solid flame top ,one piece back, no fret edge binding.
 
I've gone back through the PMs I've exchanged with the current owner/seller of this guitar and he did say something that I missed when I 1st read through:

"I've been in touch with a guy who imports the UK tokais and he's trying to work out where it came from and which model it is. Apparently this isn't a UK guitar but one which was destined for another market in Europe (which is why the number wasn't on his list). There are other people importing them from Europe to sell here and advertising them as higher spec models than they are, a problem caused by tokai refusing to put model numbers on them! "
 
"The ULS150 is a premium series made for sale in the UK and it is definitely a solid flame maple top one piece back just check a UK dealer spec
ULS150 is actually priced 266k yen"

I don't care about fret ends, I'm not arguing about veneer or solid, and this particular guitar does not have a one piece back IMO (not speculation, it's what I see).

Well, yeah... I'm completely lost. So now it's at LS-260 level. I give up.

You can all call it whatever you want.
 
JVsearch said:
"The ULS150 is a premium series made for sale in the UK and it is definitely a solid flame maple top one piece back just check a UK dealer spec
ULS150 is actually priced 266k yen"

I don't care about fret ends, I'm not arguing about veneer or solid, and this particular guitar does not have a one piece back IMO (not speculation, it's what I see).

Well, yeah... I'm completely lost. So now it's at LS-260 level. I give up.

You can all call it whatever you want.

You can see in the pics a Tokai that quite obviously has a solid flamed maple cap with a two piece back really ?
Scotoma.... The mind sees what it wants


Please show me ANY Tokai in the current Tokai range that has a solid flamed maple cap with a two piece back...
you CANNOT because they DO NOT EXIST in the current range.
And yes a ULS150 is NOT priced at 150k yen.

I don't know what model guitar the OP has in this thread but I don't believe that ANY Tokai with a solid flamed maple cap with a two piece back exists in the current Tokai range.
All the Tokai in the current range that have a solid flamed maple cap have ONE PIECE BACKS.
 
Kipple said:
JVsearch said:
"The ULS150 is a premium series made for sale in the UK and it is definitely a solid flame maple top one piece back just check a UK dealer spec
ULS150 is actually priced 266k yen"

I don't care about fret ends, I'm not arguing about veneer or solid, and this particular guitar does not have a one piece back IMO (not speculation, it's what I see).

Well, yeah... I'm completely lost. So now it's at LS-260 level. I give up.

You can all call it whatever you want.

You can see in the pics a Tokai that quite obviously has a solid flamed maple cap with a two piece back really ?
Scotoma.... The mind sees what it wants


Please show me ANY Tokai in the current Tokai range that has a solid flamed maple cap with a two piece back...
you CANNOT because they DO NOT EXIST in the current range.
And yes a ULS150 is NOT priced at 150k yen.

I don't know what model guitar the OP has in this thread but I don't believe that ANY Tokai with a solid flamed maple cap with a two piece back exists in the current Tokai range.
All the Tokai in the current range that have a solid flamed maple cap have ONE PIECE BACKS.
Well, derr... that's why I want to know for sure!

You're just quoting catalog specs over and over - it's pointless. There have always been deviations from catalog specs.

Why is the guitar called ULS-150 when it costs 266k Yen? At that price it should definitely have a one piece back.
 
Kipple said:
You can see in the pics a Tokai that quite obviously has a solid flamed maple cap with a two piece back really ?
Scotoma.... The mind sees what it wants
You must be blind if you can't see the flame in the pickup routes.
 
JVsearch said:
Kipple said:
You can see in the pics a Tokai that quite obviously has a solid flamed maple cap with a two piece back really ?
Scotoma.... The mind sees what it wants
You must be blind if you can't see the flame in the pickup routes.

It was a question and in the question it states that the top quite OBVIOUSLY has a solid flamed maple cap and.... It was actually questioning the two piece back that you say you can see NOT the solid flamed maple cap.

I have already stated previously on a couple of occasions in this thread that the guitar in the OP has a solid flamed maple cap. But then based on your last comment you must of overlooked that I previously mentioned this.

So no I'm not blind and Its obvious if you read my previous comments that I can see a solid flamed maple cap in the OP pics of the guitar in question .

it's you who are seeing a two piece back.
Show me a Tokai that has a solid flamed maple cap And a TWO piece back and when you find one you can bring it round to my house and if you like you can bring it over on your unicorn... Cos I would love to see that as well. :D

And while your at it you can ask some Tokai dealers why a ULS150 doesent cost 150k yen.

I would like to add that I see threads like this all the time descend into shitstorms resorting to insults etc and I really hope this thread doesn't go down that road between us two at least .
You are obviously a nice guy and passionate about Tokai which is great
We both think we are right and that's fine.
So Show me a Tokai with a solid flamed maple cap and a two piece back and I will buy you a beer.
 
I wonder if fastfreddy wasn't the previous owner and had lots of fun to give us the runaround with his knowledge :D Hard to tell how he could tell from the same pics we all had what exactly this guitar is.For me the seam is clearly visible too...
 
This thread just goes to show how important good photography is when selling. The picture of the back of the guitar to my eye looks like a two piece back. I don't think i want to see that, it just looks like that to me. The photo is of such poor quality the wood could be alder, or poplar. i've looked around the site and found some GOOD pictures of guitars backs and seen how without such good pics mistakes could have been made. Mahogany has natural streaks and with a crappy picture that's perhaps all we are seeing. Here's a perfect example.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22204&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Beyond having some in focus pictures, it's all a guessing game. And in the spirit of the season i'll leave you with this.

w8n67b.jpg
 
I had 2 ULS150s made in 2005. Definitely no fret edge binding (has anyone ever seen a non-vintage LS150 with FEB?). and both 1 piece backs. This guitar looks like a 1 piece back to me.
 
brokentoes said:
This thread just goes to show how important good photography is when selling. The picture of the back of the guitar to my eye looks like a two piece back. I don't think i want to see that, it just looks like that to me. The photo is of such poor quality the wood could be alder, or poplar. i've looked around the site and found some GOOD pictures of guitars backs and seen how without such good pics mistakes could have been made. Mahogany has natural streaks and with a crappy picture that's perhaps all we are seeing. Here's a perfect example.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22204&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Beyond having some in focus pictures, it's all a guessing game.
Your link is a good example of a LS200 5A I was referring to in my previous post.

Here's a photo of the body of the LS150 AAA being discussed here...looks like one piece to me, the line is not necessarily a join.

12191634_955847301175711_8254275814808993360_n_zpse2tl7bfj.jpgoriginal_zpskwyiurag.jpeg
 
Kipple said:
And while your at it you can ask some Tokai dealers why a ULS150 doesent cost 150k yen.

So Show me a Tokai with a solid flamed maple cap and a two piece back and I will buy you a beer.

The name of ULS150/LS150 with AAA grade maple top isn't based on manufacturer suggested retail price in Japanese yen. Actually it's version of LS150/LS160/LS173 but with solid flamed maple cap. They made it for export only (mostly).
Also they currently made one regular Tokai with a solid flamed maple cap and a two piece back. It's Tokai LS340 with solid flamed maple cap and two piece HONDURAS mahogany back.
And I like beer :)
 
Hi guys, I see you all have a bit more experience than me. Could you please look at this thread and tell me what you think, thanks.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=23000
 

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