Identity of MIJ Love Rock: Possible trade situation

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My guess is it's a ULS95F. What leads me to believe this is the fact that it has a 2 piece back (Tokai Guitars UK lists the ULS95F with a 2 piece back and the ULS105F and ULS150 with a one piece back) Another clue is that the flame on that top is VERY nice. Too nice to be solid top at this price point. My LS150F has a solid maple top with a one piece back, but the flame is not as deep as this one. I would think it is a veneer. Just my $.02
 
Ton of tone....veneer??? Phah another ridiculous comment, how can you justify that?

You are right marcusnieman, I probably should chill but I’m kind of interested in the ramifications of this debate.
It’s just a struggle to understand why people want to believe this is a lesser spec guitar than the seller said. There is a consequence that the comments offered would influence the prospective buyer into thinking he is being deceived. I thought to myself, how would I feel if that were my guitar that I was trying to sell and I read the comments (offered by people who should know that factory specs are subject to change at any time) that suggested my guitar was not as advertised? And what if that guitar was bought from a legitimate Tokai dealership and is completely genuine in all respects?
There is a saying “advice is offered by those who don’t have to live with the consequences” which helps to put into perspective any opinion given. Personally I would have advised the buyer to check examples offered for sale (on the web) and then visit and talk to the Tokai dealer locally so the buyer could build a good understanding of the feel and characteristics of an actual guitar. Then obviously go and compare what he or she has learned against the instrument in question.
As an aside, I took the pickups out of my guitar and saw no model numbers. I wonder if my guitar is what I thought it was. I can say a couple of things for sure; it is beautifully made with top quality workmanship, it plays without fault and it certainly not veneer! Sound wise it’s good but not quite as good as my Gibson, but I’d not hold that against it as that is only my opinion.
It is almost certainly a maple capped ULS 150 with a two piece back from the premium series, I can’t see what else it could more likely be from the UK range. The question now is, did the buyer make the deal and buy the guitar?
 
Cheers guys.

It was sold to the buyer from a dealer as an LS150 but when he offered it for sale or trade he had several people tell him it was a cheaper model so he wanted to clarify what it was before I sorted a trade with him. I posted here with his full permission.

He himself contacted Tokai UK importers who have since confirmed to him its an LS150 as was originally sold to him. He's sent me pics of the control cavity and pickup routes and you can see the CTS pots, long neck tenon and the maple cap. Its not a veneer.

Situations have now changed and he doesn't want my trades. So unless I can sell them intime I won't be getting it anyway unfortunately.
 
Is there any chance you could post the pics? If what you're saying is correct then it either represents a big shift in how Tokai are making the premium series now, or shows that the UK distributor isn't keeping up with current model designations. Either way, it'll be good to know for future identifications.

Glad we got to the bottom of it and the owner will make his decision based on correct information.

Sorry for misleading you, we were all acting in good faith.
 
fastfreddy1962 said:
Ton of tone....veneer??? Phah another ridiculous comment, how can you justify that?

I justify that by what the Tokai UK website says. It lists the ULS95F as the best flametop model with a 2 piece back, and it is a veneer.
http://tokai-guitars.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=83&category_id=15&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31

The ULS105F is also a veneer, but has a one piece back.
http://tokai-guitars.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=94&category_id=15&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31

The ULS150 has a solid top and one piece back.
http://tokai-guitars.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=39&category_id=14&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31

This information (and my experience with my own LS150F) is what I based my ridiculous comment on. If this guitar is truly a ULS150, then Tokai's published information is obviously wrong. Furthermore, I made it very clear that this was my "Guess" and "my $.02" (which means opinion). You obviously are incapable of respecting another person's opinion, beating it down to a "ridiculous comment".

fastfreddy1962.... How can you justify being such a dick?
 
Paladin2019 said:
Is there any chance you could post the pics? If what you're saying is correct then it either represents a big shift in how Tokai are making the premium series now...
Yeah, interesting - LS-160 plain top is lowest rung of premium series.

BUT!

There have been UK "special" orders that were top value - eg you'd get something close to the flametop premium LS-250 at 150k Yen price in a special run for England. One piece body, solid flame, long tenon and all the wiring/tail piece stuff etc. It would be no surprise to find out that that price couldn't be sustained with all those specs now.

The guitar in question appears to be an effort to continue that type of model at the 150k Yen price point in spite of inflation. What then is the true status of a UK-150 with a two piece body? For me - it's not premium, as a big factor is the reproduction of the LP recipe and that means a one piece body. Stupid? Probably, particulary when there may be lots of multi piece body LPs that sound great, but people buying online start with specs and draw lines in the sand.
 
Well thankfully we now have a resolution to the debate.
Brow has seen the photos of the cavities and electronics and has confirmed the cap not veneer.
Tokai UK's only deviation from spec appears to be the two piece back which, with the current problems sourcing sustainable resources, I'm not going to criticise them for. If that is the criteria you have for choosing then you pay your money and make the choice.
So we have a ULS150 up for grabs in good old blighty, what would the value of such a nice example be, list is what £1425 so where should a nice 2nd hand guitar be...we wouldn't want Brow to pay over the odds would we?

Ton of tone or should I say hot air, I challenged robustly your opinion because you had not seen the guitar and as such are (as I am) unqualified to judge what the top was made from. You can throw all the web links you like around but they still do not give real substance to the argument. Brow has now confirmed the guitar features a cap not veneer so surely you can now see who is a dick and who isn't!
 
UK Tokai LS150F do feature one pcs. body back, solid flame top and nitro.
Make the acetone test and you'll know what Tokai guitar do you refer..
Simple.
 
fastfreddy1962 said:
Well thankfully we now have a resolution to the debate.
Brow has seen the photos of the cavities and electronics and has confirmed the cap not veneer.

We, however, haven't. All MIJ Tokais have a maple cap, the question is whether the flame is a veneer and it's an easy mistake to make.

fastfreddy1962 said:
Tokai UK's only deviation from spec appears to be the two piece back

And the unbound fret ends (a big deal), and possibly a veneer top (which would fit with the price point, hence pics requested for verification).

fastfreddy1962 said:
So we have a ULS150 up for grabs in good old blighty, what would the value of such a nice example be, list is what £1425 so where should a nice 2nd hand guitar be...we wouldn't want Brow to pay over the odds would we?

Getting the right answer was always the objective, for good or ill. You were behaving like such an impertinent little upstart that for a long time I suspected that you were actually the owner of the guitar in question and trying to rip him off by overvaluing it. I still have my suspicions, which is why I'd like to see Brow's additional pictures.

fastfreddy1962 said:
Brow has now confirmed the guitar features a cap not veneer so surely you can now see who is a dick and who isn't!

You may have won the argument, but you're still acting like a dick.
 
Paladin, I have won nothing.

I merely presented an alternative view to yours (also most others too), and when challenged you resort to name calling which makes you look even dumber than I ever could. The trial continues because you have not seen the pictures in question, which is hilarious! You actually made me laugh albeit briefly, until the veiled insinuations of me being a rip off artist??? That paladin is not acceptable conduct on any level and shows you to be a very silly person. I’m insolent, impertinent, an upstart and a dick too?

What a super forum this turned out to be and it’s a shame because valuable information on the Tokai brand is likely to be lost among the inane ramblings and opinions of people like you. I just hope people have the sense to question and verify the facts properly for themselves rather than take your view as gospel.

You will be pleased to know that I shall now withdraw from this thread. I’ve nothing more of any value to add. I’ve learned my lesson too which is that I should never have commented and disagreed with you, it has been a complete waste of my time.
 
fastfreddy1962 said:
Brow has now confirmed the guitar features a cap not veneer so surely you can now see who is a dick and who isn't!

Yes, we all see that now...

Paladin2019 said:
You may have won the argument, but you're still acting like a dick.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

fastfreddy1962 said:
You will be pleased to know that I shall now withdraw from this thread.

Best news I have heard today.
 
Ton of Tone, it's been a pleasure to discuss Tokai's with you. I feel you have found your spiritual home on here.
I know you will miss me but I shall offer no further comments.
God bless you.
 
Paladin2019 said:
fastfreddy1962 said:
Tokai UK's only deviation from spec appears to be the two piece back

And the unbound fret ends (a big deal), and possibly a veneer top (which would fit with the price point, hence pics requested for verification).
I don't think the unbound fret ends are relevant - you have to go up to LS-470 or something before you get bound fret ends on modern premium series LS guitars.
 
When did the fret ends start changing? I actually prefer them unbound but it was always one of the things to look for on a premium model
 
Paladin2019 said:
When did the fret ends start changing? I actually prefer them unbound but it was always one of the things to look for on a premium model
Yeah, actually, I could be wrong on that - may have been thinking of a full nitro finish which is only available on the two top models.

If there is FEB on a LS-165 Premium then it's game over for this "ULS-150".
 
Here's the new pics taken during the 'appraisal' of the guitar, which was confirmed to the buyer by Tokai Importers UK as being an LS150:







You can see where it's a proper maple cap, but as for if it's a veneer; I don't think it is as I'd expect more symmetry on the flame if it was, but I'm no expert and I'll admit that! :lol:
 

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