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Tokai LS120 Reborn old 1980 Eu SOLD!!
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le juge
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Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 305
Location: Le Mans - France

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have this guitar from 1980 (a great guitar really, I love it) :

"EG800GS: Mahogany one layer body, Maple two piece top, Gold finish, Mahogany one piece neck, Ebony Fingerboard, Hot Lick P-90 type pickups."

I don't know where they were able to find an ebony looking like a rosewood...
Nothing to compare with the ebony fretboard of my '63 Crestwood custom.

Another mistake ? I don't know why they were writing informations like this on their catalogue if it's wrong.

I'll stop it, I forget I'm not an expert because I have not own enough guitars.

I prefer to go and see the real life outside of the catalogues.

Have a nice day guys.


Last edited by le juge on Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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villager
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Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3502
Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will stop it too we agree to disagree !!
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wulfman
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Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 867
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Japan did not sign the CITES treaty until 1980 so whatever Brazilian was imported and hoarded before then must have gone somewhere.
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LPjunior
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Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone tried the fluorescence tests on their suspected woods? It's supposed to be very reliable and easy to do, a utility knife to scrape a minute amount off the board is probably all that's needed along with a blacklight.

May even work by comparing the fluorescence of a water wet swab against an ethanol wet swab of the board for fluorescence, which I think is pretty much what the authorities use these days to test, albiet better solvents and lights. Although considering the CITES regs for the EU you're probably better off not knowing for certain.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrp/fpl_rp632.pdf
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Lumi71
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Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

board of the guitar of the topic

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le juge
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Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 305
Location: Le Mans - France

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not braz, the shape of the pores is not like that. But great quality of wood, for sure !
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Peter Mac
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1060
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,

this is a fun thread for sure . . so lets get some facts straight.
There are 2 types of Brazilian Rosewood - Old World and New World. (New World is replanted R'wood over 30 yrs ago, Old World trees are 100's of years old)
CITES treaty was signed by USA in 1974, by Japan in 1982. If Brazil did stop exporting Old World BRF in 1968 that explains a few things.
To the best of my research and knowledge NO Tokai built between 1978 and 1986 ever had a Brazilian board regardless of Model - this includes LS-200.
In the late '70s there were still great stocks of Old World Indian and Sth Amer. rosewood available at a much cheaper prices than Braz, that economics dictated using them instead.

Hope these help the discussion

Peter Mac
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ibicus
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Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 149
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some months ago I talked to a guy making expertises to legalize guitars with braz board due to the situation in germany regarding cites and brazilian rosewood.He told me that he could never say by looking at detailed pictures if it is braz or not as variations are possible and common.He also said he must have every guitar on his table and sometimes needs a small sample of the wood to be 100% sure what it is.
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le juge
Guitar God


Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 305
Location: Le Mans - France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Mac wrote:
Hi guys,

this is a fun thread for sure . . so lets get some facts straight.
There are 2 types of Brazilian Rosewood - Old World and New World. (New World is replanted R'wood over 30 yrs ago, Old World trees are 100's of years old)
CITES treaty was signed by USA in 1974, by Japan in 1982. If Brazil did stop exporting Old World BRF in 1968 that explains a few things.
To the best of my research and knowledge NO Tokai built between 1978 and 1986 ever had a Brazilian board regardless of Model - this includes LS-200.
In the late '70s there were still great stocks of Old World Indian and Sth Amer. rosewood available at a much cheaper prices than Braz, that economics dictated using them instead.

Hope these help the discussion

Peter Mac

Thanks, that what I was trying to explain, it was impossible to have the same wood as Gibson and Fender before 1965, because of the export ban.
Old braz come from a very small region of East Brazil. Now, people are confused with brazilian rosewood and rosewood export from Brazil, not the same wood, as you said, South America rosewood.
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le juge
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Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 305
Location: Le Mans - France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ibicus wrote:
Some months ago I talked to a guy making expertises to legalize guitars with braz board due to the situation in germany regarding cites and brazilian rosewood.He told me that he could never say by looking at detailed pictures if it is braz or not as variations are possible and common.He also said he must have every guitar on his table and sometimes needs a small sample of the wood to be 100% sure what it is.


No, with a very detailed (High res) you can easily check the shape of the pores and the wood lines. It's more easy with the guitar in hands. Just the experience of checking many vintage guitars made before 1965 can help to identify braz...


Last edited by le juge on Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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le juge
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Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 305
Location: Le Mans - France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


As I said before, don't worry about your fretboard, these old Tokai/Greco HighEnd models have a vey good quality of rosewood.
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Lumi71
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Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump.
still availible. Open to offers. Can ship internationally as well,
open for partial trades
more pics here
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Tokai-LS-120-Reborn-old-1980-MIJ-Japan-Rare-/171969791731?hash=item280a32c6f3:g:2eMAAOSwgQ9Vy4JO
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