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tenons...were all the love rock/reborns built the same?

 
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bolero
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:04 pm    Post subject: tenons...were all the love rock/reborns built the same? Reply with quote

just wondering if the neck joint/tenon area was ever done the same as gibson used in the '50's?

all the tokai neck pup cavity pics I have seen have no tenon: the neck stops right at the pup cavity. although there is a bit of a route to make it look similar to the gibson, the heel of the neck doesn't actually extend into the cavity like a 50's gibson

this is the case on my '81 LS60 as well

thx!
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bolero
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

?


...someone here must have looked into this?


34 views and no comments? do I have bad breath or something?


cheers
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supernout
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

either they're laughing or they don't know what a tenon is.

anyway, you are completely right IMO. the 320's and i think older 200's have a long tenon (tongue), i don't know too much about the newer 200's.

supernout
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bolero
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aha, interesting, thx for the reply!!
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hans-j?rgen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bolero wrote:
34 views and no comments? do I have bad breath or something?

Probably the same question had been answered on that day in another thread, because it's a FAQ anyhow.

No, most models never had a long neck tenon, although ebay sellers think different. The usual neck joint goes up to the cavity and ends there, so it's not a short tenon either, rather a medium tenon. Sometimes there is a fake carving in the cavity bottom to give the impression of a long tenon.

But Tokai also builds Love Rocks with long neck tenons, calling them "deep joint" then. In the 2003-2004 catalog this term can be found for the LS120 and LS320, but not for the LS200. This could mean that the LS200 neck is really different from the other two, perhaps because of the ebony fretboard which might have been originally designed for the LC models and now has to be used up. But I'm completely guessing here, so maybe the new LS200 also has this neck tenon, and Tokai only didn't mention it in the catalog.
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bolero
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm, I looked & didn't see anything in the FAQ's about this....but I did just do a thread search & found some info:


http://www.tokaiforum.com/search.php?search_id=1572445862&start=25


thx for the *new* info though, there wasn't much definitive in those posts

cheers
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hans-j?rgen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bolero wrote:
hmm, I looked & didn't see anything in the FAQ's about this....

OK, I meant it comes up regularly in the forum, not the FAQs on the main site.

Quote:
but I did just do a thread search & found some info:
http://www.tokaiforum.com/search.php?search_id=1572445862&start=25

The link doesn't work, it should contain a thread or post id. A good search term probably is "tenon".

Quote:
thx for the *new* info though, there wasn't much definitive in those posts

I've never seen a photo of a new LS320 or LS120 with the "deep joint" neck, only several with the usual medium neck tenon. By the way, I think this word does not only mean the tongue underneath the neck pickup cavity, but the whole piece of neck wood under the fretboard which is roughly carved in a slight V-shape to fit into the body.

Here are some pictures that show a short vs. a long tenon, made and published by Gibson, as far as I know, to illustrate the difference of a Historic Reissue with long tenon vs. a normal Les Paul Standard:





Here's the LPF thread where I found them:

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98748

By the way, I'd like to know what that light colored piece of wood between the fretboard and the truss rod is in the Standard picture, looks like a slice of maple to me... Or is this the usual method for filling the truss rod cutout?

Answering my own question: obviously yes, because in the upper picture the Historic shows a square light colored piece of wood at the end, too. So the saw just didn't cut these guitars in two exactly equal pieces.
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spikeymikey
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: tenon Reply with quote

Side by side with a Gibson historic my '79 LP Reborn seems to have the exact same joint from comparing the neck cavities anyhow. Gonna try to bust into the local hospital tonight and play with their X-Ray machine
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hans-j?rgen
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good idea... and send pix!
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Paladin2019
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

supernout wrote:
either they're laughing or they don't know what a tenon is.

anyway, you are completely right IMO. the 320's and i think older 200's have a long tenon (tongue), i don't know too much about the newer 200's.

supernout
(back in saddle again!)


The new 200's don't have the full length tenon, but it extends to the end of the neck. The question is, does an extra half-inch lip of wood really make that much difference in tone? I reckon not, but it is a 'vintage correct' detail that some people consider important.

Mine appears to be a two-piece tenon, with a second bit of wood under the main body of the tenon. My theory is that this is actually a very large shim. The neck tenon would be cut to size, then the shim part shaped so the neck perfectly fits the neck pocket. This would eliminate the risky and labour intensive business of percetly shaping a full size long tenon.
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hans-j?rgen
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paladin2019 wrote:
The new 200's don't have the full length tenon, but it extends to the end of the neck. The question is, does an extra half-inch lip of wood really make that much difference in tone? I reckon not, but it is a 'vintage correct' detail that some people consider important.

Right, and very interesting about your new LS200, thanks for sharing the info. Another aspect about that endless tenon saga is that the long tenon isn't just longer, but also broader, so the contact between the neck and the body wood is supposed to be much tighter with less glue which should enhance a better transport of the neck vibrations into the body. I agree with that when looking at the available Gibson pictures, but concerning the medium tenon of Tokai guitars I would say it is close in that respect, too.
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INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"
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