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Tokai Breezysound TE-80 info please
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Legit or not?
Legit
40%
 40%  [ 2 ]
Not-legit
60%
 60%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 5

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Reborn Old
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Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 481

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As already mentioned, I don't have the luxury of enough computer time to always check everything first,
and I don't presume to have the authority to tell you how you should do things either, sorry.
If Jacco does in fact have to translate text, then I can understand his frustration a little more.

Tokai produced a boat load of Fender models both for themselves and for Fernandes in 1977 and
were pretty up to speed on clear primer coating first, and on how to apply finishes in general by 1977, judging by results.

You will undoubtedly continue in attempts at discrediting me, but despite the lack of
a fret board model stamp #, after comparing yours to others, I have pretty solid evidence that your neck
was part of that initial Dec 1979 Breezy production run,
( .... or evidence to a lesser extent, of Dec 1980 production for naysayers that insist the lack of a neck model # stamp matters here).

No point in discussing this further, since you are so entrenched in your prototype theories.
There's nothing remarkably different about yours that hasn't already been raised and subsequently dismissed by you.
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Udonitron
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 950
Location: Victoria, BC Canada Eh

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reborn Old wrote:
As already mentioned, I don't have the luxury of enough computer time to always check everything first,
and I don't presume to have the authority to tell you how you should do things either, sorry.
If Jacco does in fact have to translate text, then I can understand his frustration a little more.

Tokai produced a boat load of Fender models both for themselves and for Fernandes in 1977 and
were pretty up to speed on clear primer coating first, and on how to apply finishes in general by 1977, judging by results.

You will undoubtedly continue in attempts at discrediting me, but despite the lack of
a fret board model stamp #, after comparing yours to others, I have pretty solid evidence that your neck
was part of that initial Dec 1979 Breezy production run,
( .... or evidence to a lesser extent, of Dec 1980 production for naysayers that insist the lack of a neck model # stamp matters here).

No point in discussing this further, since you are so entrenched in your prototype theories.
There's nothing remarkably different about yours that hasn't already been raised and subsequently dismissed by you.


You seem to be active and entrenched in discussions quite readily so I assumed your PC time is adequate.
Also, Jacco appears to be quite fluent in English and tends to speak well, do you disagree?

Discredit you, how so exactly?

You have "pretty solid evidence" my neck is Dec 79 made but then possible evidence that it might be a Dec 1980 neck...sounds pretty solid for sure!

I didn't realize you decide what should and should not be discussed & that your opinions are somehow more valid than my own, yikes.
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JDB
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Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reborn, If you can find a Dec neck from 1980 with the hex TRC then quite possibly Udo's is 1980. If you can find a 1979 without a model board stamp then yes it can Dec 1979. There are 78 examples of strats with no board stamps. Is it possible that a DEC stamped neck would have no board model stamp? Probably more likely than a 79 having no board model stamp coz all LPs and strats did in 1979. So really it is still quite possible for it to be from 1978 isn't it?
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After studying a lot of pics, I would say Dec 1979 most likely, Dec 1980 less likely, and Dec 1978 very unlikely.
I did find another 1979 blank neck with no artifacts or damage from decal removal.

I found 1980 hex adjust necks did continue to be used (after the 1st X slot examples appeared in Oct 1980)
through line run 13 Dec 1980, if the absence of a model # fret stamp on Udo's remains an important consideration.

I'll let interested parties arrive at their own independent conclusions.


Last edited by Reborn Old on Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally speaking we all love our MIJs for their good price-quality ratio.
The Japanese are known for their high quality control standard.
The result is that we seldom find deviations from the norm.

If I think about 1978-1981 Tokai guitars the only deviations that come to mind are 2 1979 2P back LS-80s, a 1979 fretboard impressed 80 with LS-100 body stamp, a 1979 neck impressed 60 with a ST-80 body stamp and a few guitars with the same serial number.

What I have never seen are missing neck or body stamps on 1978-1981 Tokai Fender models. Why? Because this is an important part of the production process for the assemblers need to know which bodies & necks can be matched without losing time with investigating the part each time.

Facts:
Chris' tele has;
-a wide neck plate with engraved 8003657 serial
-no impressed model stamp on the the last fret
-a december neck stamp, with 'A' = high end, nitro finished Tokai
-a hex truss rod nut, dating it in combination with the neck stamp to december 1978 or december 1979.
-no Tokai decals
-no body stamp
-a non catalogued body finish
-a tummy cut
-TE-80 or higher hardware


According to my serial log, in 1978:
All Tokai Fender models up to serial 8001913 had a narrow neck plate without serial number, serial number stamped on the back end of the neck, a date/production stamp on the butt of the neck, a model stamp in the neck pocket of the body and a date/production stamp in either the neck pickup or middle pickup cavity.

Up to 8002163 I have logged only LS models.
Between 8002163 and 80003028 there is a gap, no models logged at all.

From 8003028 on all Tokai Fender models have a wide neck plate with engraved serial number, impressed model on the last fret, a date/production stamp on the butt of the neck, a model stamp in the neck pocket of the body and a date/production stamp in either the neck pickup or middle pickup cavity.


So Chris' tele should have an impressed model number on the last fret.
Why doesn't it have that if it does have a date/production stamp?

It is also missing a body date/production stamp and body model stamp.

No Tokai decals, tummy cut, a finish color non typical for Tokai.

I have owned many nitro finished Tokais, I always tell people how easy this is removed with acetone.
The impressed fretboard model number on my strat is gone now after light sanding.

This guitar screams refinish to me. But I am still curious about it's origins.
Do you gave close-ups of the soldering Chris?
And maybe an overall picture of the routing (pickup cavities, control cavity).
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Udonitron
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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Location: Victoria, BC Canada Eh

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure man, I can take some today once home from work.
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jacco
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get right on it man, no excuses!
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Udonitron
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Screw you, man!
5 hours!!!
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Udonitron
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reborn Old wrote:
After studying a lot of pics, I would say Dec 1979 most likely, Dec 1980 less likely, and Dec 1978 very unlikely.
I did find another 1979 blank neck with no artifacts or damage from decal removal.

I found 1980 hex adjust necks did continue to be used (after the 1st X slot examples appeared in Oct 1980)
through line run 13 Dec 1980, if the absence of a model # fret stamp on Udo's remains an important consideration.

I'll let interested parties arrive at their own independent conclusions.


Pics?
Details?
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Udonitron
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double
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Reborn Old
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Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, you can either accept that my comments were made after careful consideration, or not.

Sounds flaky I know, but the majority of pics I evaluated came from a source
who didn't want them shared or published, which I fully intend to respect.
I'm looking for similar pics when I have the time, but they are quite uncommon, so it may take awhile.
The only thing I would add to Jacco's conclusions is that Dec 1980 hex truss rods do exist, but no evidence of any Breezy production in Dec 1980.

You have enough info to do your own research and arrive at your own conclusions for the time being.


Last edited by Reborn Old on Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Udonitron
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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Location: Victoria, BC Canada Eh

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reborn Old wrote:
Sorry, you can either accept that my comments were made after careful consideration, or not.

Sounds flaky I know, but the majority of pics I evaluated came from a source
who didn't want them shared or published, which I fully intend to respect.
I'm looking for similar pics when I have the time, but they are quite uncommon, so it may take awhile.

You have enough info to do your own research and arrive at your own conclusions for the time being.


That is what I figured you would say.
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Udonitron
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took a few shots before going out for groceries yesterday to show the wear and offer some details if people would like to scrutinize over em..
Didn't have a flat head handy to take the control plate off so I will try to do that today after work.







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JDB
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Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koiz has this Springy. 1978 plate St80 in the cavity, no date or colour code above the st 80, 60 on the board and a serial close to Udo's.
Pic of the neck end and pocket would be good.
If the guitar is all original then the transition stuff was still happening around 8003810
http://s282.photobucket.com/user/koizguitar/library/00-ebay-list/1978%20Tokai?sort=2&page=1
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