Tokai Breezysound TE-80 info please

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You said something like that you found low month neck/body stamps were given high 1980 serial neck plates.
I thought you meant low 1981 month stamps.
Stop editing your posts man, otherwise I must quote you every time :D
 
Sorry, but the only ST model related to JDB that I mentioned, that I'm aware of, was this early 1978 model.

I stated on page 4 without any of the edits you are implying :
Reborn Old said:
I show only Springys from #8003105 .. reportedly about when Fender model neck stamps began ? to #8004296,
(which agrees with JDB's ST-80 #8001913 "no neck #" observation for comparison purposes)
but I didn't have accompanying body stamp #'s for comparison.
Peter went on to mention that he thought neck model stamp #'s started even earlier in 1978 at around #8002000 IIRC.
It's the only time I mentioned JDB's ST that I'm aware of and I don't see how this relates to 1980 or 81 models ?

You will never be certain of this guitar's provenance, no matter how much you research this, so why bother ?
You can't tie the neck to that body with any degree of certainty outside of both having type 2 neck plate spacing.
If not refinished as Udo adamantly stated, the body would have date stamps that were masked under tape,
as the neck does. The finish would be a recognizable Fender finish.
You guys have so much riding on the lack of a model stamp on a
pre 1981 unstickered Tokai neck in the land of MIJ exceptions. Why ?
Just to rule out '79 + early '80 models ?

Nothing more to discover here.

Reborn out
 
Reborn Old said:
Sorry, but the only ST model related to JDB that I mentioned, that I'm aware of, was this early 1978 model.

I stated on page 4 without any of the edits you are implying :
Reborn Old said:
I show only Springys from #8003105 .. reportedly about when Fender model neck stamps began ? to #8004296,
(which agrees with JDB's ST-80 #8001913 "no neck #" observation for comparison purposes)
but I didn't have accompanying body stamp #'s for comparison.
Peter went on to mention that he thought neck model stamp #'s started even earlier in 1978 at around #8002000 IIRC.
It's the only time I mentioned JDB's ST that I'm aware of and I don't see how this relates to 1980 or 81 models ?

You will never be certain of this guitar's provenance, no matter how much you research this, so why bother ?
You can't tie the neck to that body with any degree of certainty outside of both having type 2 neck plate spacing.
If not refinished as Udo adamantly stated, the body would have date stamps that were masked under tape,
as the neck does. The finish would be a recognizable Fender finish.
You guys have so much riding on the lack of a model stamp on a
pre 1981 unstickered Tokai neck in the land of MIJ exceptions. Why ?
Just to rule out '79 + early '80 models ?

Nothing more to discover here.

Reborn out



No, it was your last post on page 6 you edited.
You said something in line with this post from another thread but left out the first 1980 you are mentioning here, hence my response:

Reborn Old said:
.. The best example I found of this were 1980 Jan + Feb body stamped Springys that ended up with the highest range of 1980 serial number plates.


And regarding Chris' tele; don't give up so easily.
You (and me too) first were certain that this guitar couldn't be from 1978 but I noticed the hex nut which places neck and body in the right timeframe, didn't I?
I still would be very interested in more unobstructed pics of the routing and close up of the soldering.
 
jacco said:
You said something like that you found low month neck/body stamps were given high 1980 serial neck plates.
I thought you meant low 1981 month stamps.
Stop editing your posts man, otherwise I must quote you every time :D

AGREED!!
If you have a correction or additional info to add just make a new post stating as such vs constant edits.
That too is why I quote him lol.
Makes better sense to take some time to think out what you want to say and proof read it vs constantly editing it.
 
jacco said:
And regarding Chris' tele; don't give up so easily.
You (and me too) first were certain that this guitar couldn't be from 1978 but I noticed the hex nut which places neck and body in the right timeframe, didn't I?
I still would be very interested in more unobstructed pics of the routing and close up of the soldering.

I posted pics of the routing man, what additional pics would you like?
I can take more pics of the soldering as well....not an problem.

The greatest harm you guys tend to lean on are these"absolutes" of every manufacturer and that is ok for full catalogued production models and granted that is all we know about for the most part but if something comes up that COULD be a prototype then you need to toss out those restrictions to a certain point...or loosen them a little as it would mean a pre-production model thus nothing was set in stone and they were still figuring **** out...testing finishes, how to apply them; stain 1st then clear or tinted clear. How much to sand the edges, how to route things properly, etc .
 
As already mentioned, I don't have the luxury of enough computer time to always check everything first,
and I don't presume to have the authority to tell you how you should do things either, sorry.
If Jacco does in fact have to translate text, then I can understand his frustration a little more.

Tokai produced a boat load of Fender models both for themselves and for Fernandes in 1977 and
were pretty up to speed on clear primer coating first, and on how to apply finishes in general by 1977, judging by results.

You will undoubtedly continue in attempts at discrediting me, but despite the lack of
a fret board model stamp #, after comparing yours to others, I have pretty solid evidence that your neck
was part of that initial Dec 1979 Breezy production run,
( .... or evidence to a lesser extent, of Dec 1980 production for naysayers that insist the lack of a neck model # stamp matters here).

No point in discussing this further, since you are so entrenched in your prototype theories.
There's nothing remarkably different about yours that hasn't already been raised and subsequently dismissed by you.
 
Reborn Old said:
As already mentioned, I don't have the luxury of enough computer time to always check everything first,
and I don't presume to have the authority to tell you how you should do things either, sorry.
If Jacco does in fact have to translate text, then I can understand his frustration a little more.

Tokai produced a boat load of Fender models both for themselves and for Fernandes in 1977 and
were pretty up to speed on clear primer coating first, and on how to apply finishes in general by 1977, judging by results.

You will undoubtedly continue in attempts at discrediting me, but despite the lack of
a fret board model stamp #, after comparing yours to others, I have pretty solid evidence that your neck
was part of that initial Dec 1979 Breezy production run,
( .... or evidence to a lesser extent, of Dec 1980 production for naysayers that insist the lack of a neck model # stamp matters here).

No point in discussing this further, since you are so entrenched in your prototype theories.
There's nothing remarkably different about yours that hasn't already been raised and subsequently dismissed by you.

You seem to be active and entrenched in discussions quite readily so I assumed your PC time is adequate.
Also, Jacco appears to be quite fluent in English and tends to speak well, do you disagree?

Discredit you, how so exactly?

You have "pretty solid evidence" my neck is Dec 79 made but then possible evidence that it might be a Dec 1980 neck...sounds pretty solid for sure! :-?

I didn't realize you decide what should and should not be discussed & that your opinions are somehow more valid than my own, yikes.
 
Reborn, If you can find a Dec neck from 1980 with the hex TRC then quite possibly Udo's is 1980. If you can find a 1979 without a model board stamp then yes it can Dec 1979. There are 78 examples of strats with no board stamps. Is it possible that a DEC stamped neck would have no board model stamp? Probably more likely than a 79 having no board model stamp coz all LPs and strats did in 1979. So really it is still quite possible for it to be from 1978 isn't it?
 
After studying a lot of pics, I would say Dec 1979 most likely, Dec 1980 less likely, and Dec 1978 very unlikely.
I did find another 1979 blank neck with no artifacts or damage from decal removal.

I found 1980 hex adjust necks did continue to be used (after the 1st X slot examples appeared in Oct 1980)
through line run 13 Dec 1980, if the absence of a model # fret stamp on Udo's remains an important consideration.

I'll let interested parties arrive at their own independent conclusions.
 
Generally speaking we all love our MIJs for their good price-quality ratio.
The Japanese are known for their high quality control standard.
The result is that we seldom find deviations from the norm.

If I think about 1978-1981 Tokai guitars the only deviations that come to mind are 2 1979 2P back LS-80s, a 1979 fretboard impressed 80 with LS-100 body stamp, a 1979 neck impressed 60 with a ST-80 body stamp and a few guitars with the same serial number.

What I have never seen are missing neck or body stamps on 1978-1981 Tokai Fender models. Why? Because this is an important part of the production process for the assemblers need to know which bodies & necks can be matched without losing time with investigating the part each time.

Facts:
Chris' tele has;
-a wide neck plate with engraved 8003657 serial
-no impressed model stamp on the the last fret
-a december neck stamp, with 'A' = high end, nitro finished Tokai
-a hex truss rod nut, dating it in combination with the neck stamp to december 1978 or december 1979.
-no Tokai decals
-no body stamp
-a non catalogued body finish
-a tummy cut
-TE-80 or higher hardware


According to my serial log, in 1978:
All Tokai Fender models up to serial 8001913 had a narrow neck plate without serial number, serial number stamped on the back end of the neck, a date/production stamp on the butt of the neck, a model stamp in the neck pocket of the body and a date/production stamp in either the neck pickup or middle pickup cavity.

Up to 8002163 I have logged only LS models.
Between 8002163 and 80003028 there is a gap, no models logged at all.

From 8003028 on all Tokai Fender models have a wide neck plate with engraved serial number, impressed model on the last fret, a date/production stamp on the butt of the neck, a model stamp in the neck pocket of the body and a date/production stamp in either the neck pickup or middle pickup cavity.


So Chris' tele should have an impressed model number on the last fret.
Why doesn't it have that if it does have a date/production stamp?

It is also missing a body date/production stamp and body model stamp.

No Tokai decals, tummy cut, a finish color non typical for Tokai.

I have owned many nitro finished Tokais, I always tell people how easy this is removed with acetone.
The impressed fretboard model number on my strat is gone now after light sanding.

This guitar screams refinish to me. But I am still curious about it's origins.
Do you gave close-ups of the soldering Chris?
And maybe an overall picture of the routing (pickup cavities, control cavity).
 
Reborn Old said:
After studying a lot of pics, I would say Dec 1979 most likely, Dec 1980 less likely, and Dec 1978 very unlikely.
I did find another 1979 blank neck with no artifacts or damage from decal removal.

I found 1980 hex adjust necks did continue to be used (after the 1st X slot examples appeared in Oct 1980)
through line run 13 Dec 1980, if the absence of a model # fret stamp on Udo's remains an important consideration.

I'll let interested parties arrive at their own independent conclusions.

Pics?
Details?
 
Sorry, you can either accept that my comments were made after careful consideration, or not.

Sounds flaky I know, but the majority of pics I evaluated came from a source
who didn't want them shared or published, which I fully intend to respect.
I'm looking for similar pics when I have the time, but they are quite uncommon, so it may take awhile.
The only thing I would add to Jacco's conclusions is that Dec 1980 hex truss rods do exist, but no evidence of any Breezy production in Dec 1980.

You have enough info to do your own research and arrive at your own conclusions for the time being.
 
Reborn Old said:
Sorry, you can either accept that my comments were made after careful consideration, or not.

Sounds flaky I know, but the majority of pics I evaluated came from a source
who didn't want them shared or published, which I fully intend to respect.
I'm looking for similar pics when I have the time, but they are quite uncommon, so it may take awhile.

You have enough info to do your own research and arrive at your own conclusions for the time being.

That is what I figured you would say.
 
Took a few shots before going out for groceries yesterday to show the wear and offer some details if people would like to scrutinize over em..
Didn't have a flat head handy to take the control plate off so I will try to do that today after work. :wink:

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14958140254_0513a274b9_b.jpg

14958696203_d124456698_b.jpg

15392842937_0e66f33477_b.jpg
 

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