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Anyone have 1978 serial #'s between 8002153 - 8003028 ?

 
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:19 pm    Post subject: Anyone have 1978 serial #'s between 8002153 - 8003028 ? Reply with quote

While pondering earliest die stamped Fender model fretboard examples
I began to question an 875 number gap in serial #'s between
8002153 - 8003028 in my data.

I've keep track of every 7 digit serial # model for years,
so wondering if anyone owns a Tokai between these numbers ?
... or seen or logged reliable examples between these numbers ?

Thanks for any assistance offered.
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ampmaker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that I'm way out of touch on the work you guys have done with serial numbers, but as you asked...

In the early days here, before faking Tokais became worthwhile, there seemed to be evidence only of a single run of numbers, where the leading digit changed with each year, but the other digits ran in series. And my old database shows a 9002203 on a '78 LS50. I know that one for sure, because it was mine and I sold to a guy in the USA about 10+ years ago). The next I had was 9002348 (also an LS50)

The highest 1978 serial number I recorded was 8001946 (one of guitargai's).

So I can't see how 1978s with numbers over 8002202 are likely, which means your 8003028 raises an eyebrow here.
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply ampmaker.

If we were considering only Les Paul models, you would be correct,
because there is a mix of Gibson and to a far lesser degree, Fender models
just before 8002153 and only Fender neck plate serial # models in fairly large numbers
above 8003028 all the way up to around 8004300 and a few more possibly even higher still.

The large 875# gap in between both serial # ranges remains a mystery to me,
if that gap is in fact relatively free of # examples, but there are plenty more # gaps in later years.


Last edited by Reborn Old on Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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jacco
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be outsourced Fender model for Fernandes.
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seemed like a possible candidate.

I just found this one 1978 six digit # stone logo FST example so far :
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1978-Fernandes-FST-Stone-LOGO-Made-in-Japan-/111423528154

I'm just hoping that void is full of stars .. (-:

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bluejeannot
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or Hondos.Gabe.
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 1979 (or in 1991, not sure which) Tokai used 911 serial # prefixes for Hondo II LP's (instead of 900xxxx or 91xxxxx)
I'm not sure about other Hondo models or '78 formats at the moment,
and there were 5 digit FST Fernandes strat serial # stampings in late 1970's,
but I'll keep an eye open for other examples of both these brands and
all Tokai bass models.
There are no other remarkable # gaps until 1983, and those are possibly assigned to Goldstars.

thanks !
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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bob,

they may have been used on the Burny Les Paul models they did in 1978?

I had always thought this block of numbers were the real start of the LesPaul Reborn models manufacture, but in over 10 years, I have to submit I have not logged a single number in that range either.
The basis was that the first 2,000 numbers were primarily (95%) Springy with the small neckplate and no serial number. In order to re-tool for the larger plate with 7 digit number, they did the next 1,000 numbers as LPR before swinging back into ST and SS production. This is just a theory, but without any hard evidence, it shall remain such.

regards
Peter Mac
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tokai made Burny FLG's I've found so far share the same low number serial # range as LS models from about 8000200 ~ 8000700 .
The Burny FLG range may be larger, as I have found less than 10 examples of the 200 reported total production so far.

Same with 1978 Springys .... there are bound to be some examples before 8003028, but I just haven't come across any yet.

1978 PB basses appear to be mixed in the same range as LS models, so far.

What makes things a bit easier, is the very small number of models offered in 1978.

=====================================

1978 ranges look roughly like this at the moment :

8000101 - 8002153 => mixed Fender + Gibson model production

<<<<< 875 # gap >>>>>

8003028 - 8003549 => Springy Sound ST

8003857 - 8004296 => Springy Sound ST
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jacco
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about you guys but after years of logging, I have only logged 150 Tokai's from 1978. On the total of 4296, that's only 0.035% of total production. It gives some indication at most but that's all.

Re Peter: I have actually logged more LS models than Springys in 1978.
Re John: My LS range in 1978 is from 8000101 to 8002163 range, not arranged in blocks.
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rechecked and found more Fender model examples between 8003549 - 8003857,
so unless there are a bunch of small gaps in the Fender model only range,
I come up with an almost 50/50 Gibson/Fender production ratio in 1978,
when treating that large 875 number gap as predominantly vacant anyway.
As you say, being such a small sample of total 1978 production, findings can vary.
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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys,

Jacco, with the LS series, is that count for 1978 overall or between 8000101 and 8002163 or from 8003xxx to the end of the year?
The vast majority of the numbers I've logged from 8000101 to 8001986 are ST models with small plates without S#. (that was my 95% - not the whole 1978 production)
Have you found the same?

Overall, I would have expected a pretty close split for the Year as they had much fewer Models they were making (5x ST, 4x LS)

Peter
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jacco
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Peter, I have logged LS only in between 8000101 and 8002163.
But my total LS count for 1978 is higher than my total ST count for 1978 as measured in the 8000101 to 8004296 range.
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