Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Goldstar identification please
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index -> Vintage (Older than 1985)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Suki
Guitar God


Joined: 22 Feb 2013
Posts: 319
Location: London, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scotsrock,

Wow there's a lot of separate subjects you talk about here, and I can feel sympathy for others on here who are getting a little aggrieved with your posts.

Your tone suggests that you are able (with the power of the internet) to instantly know more about Tokais than the wealth of knowledge of this forum's members.

Some forum members here read Japanese, so I'm unclear what you can discover that isn't already known by re-translating old catalogues.

You keep bringing up Fender information. Nobody is trying to say any Fender information you have presented is incorrect. The point is that Fender vintage re-issue and Tokais were not 100% correct, so you can't use a Fender story to backup a Tokai argument. Serial numbers especially!

More to the point, I can see you are trying to prove something here: that your ST-50 is an ST-60. I don't see why you're so hung up on this, but you have the definitive answer from the experts and are unable to disprove it (even digging up rosewood neck ST-60s as evidence!).

And E pickups were not replaced by (edit) IIV pickups!


Last edited by Suki on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluejeannot
Guitar God


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 1611
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what Aire Sound a long standing and knowledgeable member says about Tokai strat pickups and I believe him to be correct.
Most of the good Tokai pickups have grey bottoms with separate pole pieces. The early ones are stamped "U" and they are medium hot, about 6.2K ohms. There are grey bottoms stamped "E" and they are more vintage output, about 5.6K ohms and these were fitted to more expensive models. The top of the range Tokai strat copies were fitted with DiMarzio VS-1 pickups and they have black bottoms.Around 1985, the "U" pickups were replaced with ones stamped "VI" (vintage output) and "VII" (hotter output). The "E" stamped pickups were then replaced with plain "V". I have a youtube channel with soundclips of the various Tokai strat pickups AireSound.
_________________
bluejeannot


Last edited by bluejeannot on Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peter Mac
Guitar God


Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1060
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Scotsrock

I expect you to be argumentative - its par for the course for a fellow Scot.

OK, lastly for the record - Your guitar is - at best - a 1983 TST-50. It is a 1958 replica (not a 1956 replica) regardless of what you think or own. The 5 digit number is also an indicator of a TST-50
I did read the article you cited and it clearly states that Fender Strats STARTED 1956 with V necks and round trees and changed specs in the 2nd 3rd of the Year to what became a 1957 Spec. - which is what your CS '56 is based on - We Clear on that.
As for my Expertise - I am the ONLY person here who actually worked for Tokai guitars in Australia during the early 1980's as a Guitar Specialist. I have official documentation to prove this and much, much more. I came from a luthierian background dating vintage Fenders and Gibsons for clients before the era of the re-issues. (Who do you think prompted Fender and Gibson to begin re-issues?)
I have been a member of the Forum since it's beginning, have worked on more Tokai than you've had haggis and whilst I don't know everything, I know a damn side more than you...and I trust the opinions of Suki, Jacco, Luis, Bluejeannot, Barks and at least another 100 members who have helped in expanding our knowledge of these guitars.
If you want a pissing competition, I beat you there - I own an original Gibson '59 LPS, other Australian TF members have seen and played it. I also have a 1980 ST-80 and a Fender '54RI.CS
In reference to Gottfried, the history pages on his website I did for him.
I also did the Timeline albeit it is over 12 years old and we did not have as much info available then.
If you want reliable Fender timeline and specs, read AR Duchussoir as he kinda wrote the Bible on vintage Fender. He is not affiliated with Fender either so has no bias.
The Japanese website you quoted for the 1981 Tokai also have a translated to English one for the 1984 catalog - might save some time waiting.

SO finally - when I say you own a 1983 TST-50 you should just say thanks.

regards
Peter Mac
_________________
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
settebello
Guitar God


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 1241
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 Peter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scotsrock
Power chords are my friend


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys

You are all ignoring the Elephant in the Room, your web site thoroughly discredited by the gross inaccuracies in its dating section, that too claims to be a translation of an 82 brochure.
_________________
I own a Goldstar strat, Squier Strats SQ, series A and E, Hank Marvin & Symon Neal, Fender CS 56 NOS Strat, Gretsch DC5122G, Ibanez AS80, MC200DC, ST300, & 2351BS, Aria PE1000 & PE Anniversary, Baldwin706, Yamaha MSG & SG2000
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Barks67
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 271
Location: Leeds UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is generally agreed that the website is out of date - and has not been updated for nearly 6 years.
Also the members posting on the forum are not actually affiliated with the main site AFIK thus the discussions come here to find some truths.

As to accuracy of Fender reissues I have a 1983 made Vintage Reissue Telecaster - It's a MIJ with US hardware and is supposed to represent a 1962 model with a rosewood neck. It has glaring inaccuracies.
First of all they were using body tone woods as used in the 70's - it weighed a ton!
Secondly the placement of the string tree is wrong. It is for that of a maple neck as the decal would have been near the nut.



This was a supposed "Blueprint" guitar according to the Fender Telecaster book. Made with full cooperation of Fender US at that time - as they recognised they had to change their business model to compete with the quality coming from Japan thanks to Tokai and Fujigen. Fender US was in a holding pattern unable to build guitars - but even they could get specs wrong.

As to accuracy of Catalogues I have also a 1985 LS50 Love Rock that defies the LS50 specs in numerous areas. Headstock speced at 14 degrees but mine is 18. 3 piece back but mine is one piece. Brass saddles...
It is by the archaeological digs here that we can determine that it is only the lack of FEB and true Nitro that places it as a lower model. We can only second guess as to why the Tokai Factory turned out a higher speced wood and build ( LS80 ish) as a lower model!
Also my 1987 rosewood necked ST50 should be an L prefix but it is a 6 numbered serial. I only know it's a 50 as I bought it new and it had 50 on the back!

Seriously, we are all good here.

Best B

Sorry for the mumbling post - had to type in a hurry before teaching...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JVsearch
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barks67 wrote:

First of all they were using body tone woods as used in the 70's - it weighed a ton!

It can't have been that heavy - the little kid has no problems with it!

Classic photo!
_________________
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Barks67
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 271
Location: Leeds UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha! Half Irish and half Indiana. Made of sturdy stuff.

Last edited by Barks67 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Suki
Guitar God


Joined: 22 Feb 2013
Posts: 319
Location: London, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Mac wrote:

If you want a pissing competition, I beat you there - I own an original Gibson '59 LPS,


OK, this is slightly off thread (and I'm certainly not trying to start a pissing competition myself!), but does anyone have any guitar related boasts that can beat he '59 LPS? or any that are notable for an interesting anecdote?

Here's mine:

When my divorce loomed in mid-2009, I faced a massive trim down of my guitar collection due to being rather strapped for cash. Many of my loveliest guitars, including my 1969 SG, my 1964 Melody Maker and (the cream of the crop, my darling baby), the 1955 Les Paul Junior had to go.

So, they were taken over to CCGX in Hampton Wick. I'd been doing deals (selling, buying, etc) with Charlie for a few years so he seemed the obvious choice to market my axes. He puts them up in the shop and receives an honest, reasonable commission for selling.

Week by week, I would call up and find out what had happened - had any been sold? etc.

So one time, Charlie told me that the 55 LP junior had been "borrowed". I was a little confused by this at first, until he told me who he had loaned it to for approval. It was none other than EC. Yes, Slowhand himself.

The story goes... A guitar tech (Jeff Beck's I think) saw the guitar and mentioned it to Eric's tech because apparently Eric was hiring one of these for studio work. Two weeks later, Eric bought it.

So, although I had to let go of it, it went to the best home I could imagine (and I got to tell the story). I also got to play the instrument for the best years of it's life.

So..... (as Jools Holland would put it), Let's have your boogie-woogie boasts (but not your bare-faced lies).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Barks67
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 271
Location: Leeds UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice!
Ok. I played for The Pretty Things from 1990 - 94. Still very good friends with
my old buddy Dick Taylor.
Dick was also the original bass player with The Rolling Stones - he wanted the Brian Jones role so left to form The Pretties.

Dick and I shared our guitars at times when touring. He ended up keeping hold of my 1985 LS50 until about 96.
I was mostly on Strat/Telecaster, he was mostly on an ESP telecaster with humbuckers so we complimented well. The Tokai LS was a very good backup for him - he was originally an ES345 guy until it was nicked in the late sixties.

The Pretty Things were a Norman Smith ( EMI engineer of early period Beatles then producer) project at the same time he was discovering Pink Floyd. Having been the hell raising RnB louts to the cream of underground psychedelia at the time they were close to these new kids on the block, and remained within the Pink Floyd circle ever since. Check out S.F Sorrow.
David Gilmour has been a close friend of Phil May since this time and is Phil May's son's Godfather. He gave Phil his white Steinberger guitar - as used on Kate Bush Secret Policeman's Ball performances. Phil also brought this on our tours so I regularly used it if a string snapped. I hated it.

Guitar boasts over for now.

Oh I met David once and he ate all my peanuts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Suki
Guitar God


Joined: 22 Feb 2013
Posts: 319
Location: London, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved the Pretty Things!!

I now have another boast that I gave a tremolo arm to one of their guitarists!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Barks67
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 271
Location: Leeds UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, thanks again for that Suki!

Me on that ST50 - and that is Dick on the left with my LS. Swaalmeen Netherlands 91.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peter Mac
Guitar God


Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1060
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,

Sorry about getting off topic . . wasn't trying to start a pissing comp. Trying to finish one.

It puzzles me why a person joins a Forum to find out information about his guitar and then proceeds to argue about miniscule cosmetics with the people who are trying to help and misquoting the very info used to supposedly support his claims.
BTW, I'm a Pink Floyd fan also, so am envious of the Dave Gilmour meet. Congrats.

Peter Mac
_________________
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JVsearch
Guitar God


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll give Gilmour a 20kg bag of peanuts if he wants to pop round to my place! Hell, I'll even throw in some cashews and a decent red wine.

Great stories you guys!
_________________
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peter Mac
Guitar God


Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1060
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

. . . I'll see your 20kg and bid 25kg, King Island Vintage cheese and a superb 2009 Barossa Valley Shiraz.
_________________
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.


Last edited by Peter Mac on Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tokai Forum - a subsidiary of TokaiRegistry.com Forum Index -> Vintage (Older than 1985) All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group