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Tokai Newbie Love Rock question from a Gibson convert
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hans-j?rgen
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shuie wrote:
Are the actual tops that these guitars get shipped with close to these pics?

Although these pictures are supposed to show the matt brown sunburst finish / MBS according to their file names, I would guess that they rather show the matt violin finish / MVF on the quilted one and the matt oak finish / MOAK on the flamed one. The picture of the LS85Q in MBS in the 2003-2004 catalog clearly shows a darker sunburst especially at the edges than the violin finish.

See also this Ishibashi page with a MOAK finish and the three excerpts on the bottom incl. MBS:

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/web/body/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ishibashi.co.jp%2Fwebshop%2Fguitar%2Ftokai%2Fls80f-m.htm&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2

Here's another example with the MBS vs. the MVF finish from Apollonmusic which seems to be taken right from the catalog:



http://www.apollonmusic.com/c_menu/natsukasi_G/Tokai_set.html

Ishibashi might not have a guitar with MBS finish right now though. As far as I know, they can order it which means at least three months for you to wait for it. MBS is listed for both the LS85Q (= quilted) and the LS80F (= flamed) in the catalog. Matt means a satin finish with less gloss than the usual polyurethan or nitro lacquer finish, so you should really want it. In a recent thread togps showed a picture of a LS80F in MVF as well as a few others:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4057

Quote:
Im assuming for these prices that the tops are photoflamed or laminate?

The only new Love Rock with a photo finish is the ALS50Q made in Korea with a "quilted gravure print" according to the 2003-2004 catalog.

Like I wrote already, the LS120F is the lowest model that might have a solid flamed maple top, everything lower is a veneer.

Here's another example for a brown sunburst Love Rock on ebay.co.uk:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tokai-Gibson-Les-Paul-58-Copy-Love-Rock-Model_W0QQitemZ7344163841QQcategoryZ112670QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It seems he won't ship outside the UK, and the price is a bit high anyhow, but the finish should be the one you're looking for.


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BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"


Last edited by hans-j?rgen on Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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shuie
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
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Location: Louisiana (USA)

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Hans! Im getting closer to figuring out what I want.

The tobacco sunburst above is definitely the right color. I was a little surprised to see in the ebay pictures that it has a dark cherry back instead of tobacco brown or black. Maybe its my screen Either way, I think thats as close as I can get to what Im looking for.
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hans-j?rgen
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shuie wrote:
I was a little surprised to see in the ebay pictures that it has a dark cherry back instead of tobacco brown or black. Maybe its my screen Either way, I think thats as close as I can get to what Im looking for.

It's also cherry red on my screen, and I don't know how a new LS80F in MBS from Ishibashi would look on the back, but you can ask them. The UK Love Rock is a LS75, so it's not the same model, probably a bit older (can't read the serial number on the back of the headstock which also has a small extra dimple).
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INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"
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whitehall
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Joined: 28 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there is some confusion on Tokai guitars and some of it is on purpose. For Americans : Tokai gibson copies are illegal in the United States. You can by real Made in Japan ( MIJ) ones mostly from Japanese dealers,- like Ishabishi, who is a large chain of music stores in Japan. They will have nothing to do with the Korean (MIK) guitars. When Rondo music had to stop selling their correct looking Agile and SX guitars , there left a big hole in that market. At about this time MIK's began showing up in Canada and marketed to the people in the USA. The MIK's being sold to Americans are sold at better than list price, this is not the case in the rest of the world. It is also why the MIK LP you will pay $550-600 for will bring $350 on ebay, if you're lucky. The difference between the two is very much day and night. An MIK SG will run $465-475 shipped. The MIJ will run $695. The MIK LP's run $500-600. The MIJ's run $795 Shipped. I have bought 3 MIK and 2 MIJ Tokai's within the last year.
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JSD
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Joined: 04 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whitehall wrote:
The MIK's being sold to Americans are sold at better than list price, this is not the case in the rest of the world. It is also why the MIK LP you will pay $550-600 for will bring $350 on ebay, if you're lucky.


They are not sold at better than list price, where do you get that? If anything, because of the low exchange rate at this time they are being sold well below "list price". Look at the UK prices, they are selling for more there aren't they and they aren't even the same guitars as the ones we get here.

And your opinion on the quality is just that, your opinion. I've sold many and not a negitave comment on the quality, guess your standards are extremely high. Sure the MIJ is a higher quality but for the money the MIK is a damn good guitar.

Flee-bay is like a giant flee-market and is not the judge for a product's true value, you can't expect to sell anything for its actual value there since there is always someone on there willing to sell something at close to cost just to make a nickle.
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shuie
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, things are moving...

Ishibashi has mail and I just got the call on the local guitar. Heres the scoop:

Looks like a two piece book matched flamed maple top, but is laminate upon inspection. Back is two or three piece, definitely more than one. Old headstock, late 50s spec neck joint. Its not a 'Reborn', headstock says 'Love Rock'. Original brown gibson like hardcase. Nice refret. No LS model number anywhere and I forgot to ask for the serial number . Pickups have been replaced with some kind of Gibson pickups, but this was expected since it had a real set of PAFs in it when i played it last. Very lightweight.

Asking price is high, but this exact guitar winked at me nearly 10 years ago when it wasnt for sale. In the back of my mind Ive wanted one like it ever since. Im going to look at it Friday with cash in hand.
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hans-j?rgen
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shuie wrote:
No LS model number anywhere and I forgot to ask for the serial number

Did you see my reply in the ebay alerts board? It's a 1988 Love Rock because of the serial number "801...", a 1980 starts with "00....."
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ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
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INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"
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shuie
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Hans. I did see that. Thats not the same guitar. Thats one I found by calling shops listed in Vintage Guitar magazine. The top and back do almost seem to match the description of the '88 guitar on the alerts board. I'll get the serial for the local guitar and repost it tonight so i can learn what it is.

Ishibashi also responded to my mail also confirming that the Matte Brown Sunburst finish will not be available for another few months.
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shuie
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I just bought the local guitar. Serial number syas its an '84. Plays real nice. Back is definitely 3 piece. Just a hair under 9lbs on the scale. Pics are on the way.

Thanks again for the help and your patience!
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shuie
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is is!




Sorry, still learning how to add light, etc, with Photoshop. Whatever I did made the flame look more pronounced than it really is. Color is Cherry Sunburst. Plays very nice.
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hans-j?rgen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shuie wrote:
Whatever I did made the flame look more pronounced than it really is. Color is Cherry Sunburst. Plays very nice.
Congrats, looks almost like my 1984 LS60 (e.g. the pickups with a bit smaller pole pieces) except for the "vintage" switch selector tip. What's the full serial number (just to compare), mine's 4020848? By the way, it weighs 4.1kg with better scales which I got today (so forget about that ~3.5kg from my bathroom scales). And you really paid that $1,900 for it?
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ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"
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shuie
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pickups are Gibson stock. When I tried to buy it years ago it was loaded with real PAFs. The guy removed those when he sold it. These were apparantly what was laying in the shop when that happened.

Full serial number is 4020756. Its not as lightweight or as resonant as my '58 reissue was, but its better than my Les Paul Custom was. its a really a nice guitar. As nice or better (definitely plays better) than any current regular production les paul than Ive picked up in the stores.

No, I didnt pay $1900 for it. The $1900 guitar was one that I found somewhere after calling all the shops in Vintage Guitar magazine. I knowingly and willingly paid too much for this one, but I didnt pay $1900.
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