1984 Goldstar?

Well, I though I had a 1984 Tokai - now I'm not so sure. Logo seems to have a ridge all round like its been put on the guitar with its clear backing and then varnished. I can't find the sort of ST-50 (whatever) markings on the neck heel (I had to change the strings so it was worth a look) It doesn't have any decals on the back of the neck and the Made in Japan sticker is black writing on semi-white stick on label that could easily be faked.

The Pick-up cavity has absolutely no marking at all, although the pots have made in Japan on them - it all looks very new in there - but I guess it could be just un-opened.

What started me off was the body and neck wear don't seem to match - OK if you marked the guitar a lot as you wore a belt etc this would match with 20 years of body wear - but the neck looks like a MIJ Fender I had for a year - and even then I didn't play it much.

The controls and the pick-up covers are pure white not faded or that aged colour. The Magnets go right through to the back of the pickups that have a black backing plate. They are staggered.

I think I might have an old body etc with a reneck - the logo stuck on and then revarnished. But I could have a new neck on a Korean (what?) beaten up body. I have nothing and know less - so how would I know?

The more I read here at the Registry the more it looks possible that people are starting to make fakes or rebuilds that are now what they shoulod be.

Help!

An 80's Tokai strat would normally have some codes stamped in the pickup and control cavity. For example M=12 in the pickup cavity and a color code in the control cavity.

The sticker showing the model (for example "50") is often removed, the Made in Japan sticker is normally white with black text.

The Tokai logo is a waterslide decal and the outline is clearly visible like on old Fenders, not like newer Fender/Squier guitars, I don't think the logos are decals on them.

The pickups could be the japanese Fender vintage pickups, they have a black plastic backing plate and alnico magnets. Tokai pickups have grey
backing plates (not plastic).

Mike

The pick ups are backed with black (looks more like fibre than plastic). The pole peices are very bright steel without chamfered edges like on an older Tokai I've seen with the earlier 7okai logo.

There was definately no markings in the cavity, just a blue pen squiggle on the bare wood of the neck socket. It had occurred to me that it could be a Japanses Fender pick up assembly. However the colour is exactly the same as Tokais.

Did you mean that the logo should look like the one I described? The

The logo is a decal with a clear coat over it so you should see the edges of the decal. Does the headstock look like it's bee repainted? Otherwise I think it's original.

Mike

No the neck looks completely OK to me. I have repainted a students broken neck so I know what to look for. But it could have been an Allparts with a decal applied and then finished - but it looks like a factory finish all over. The neck has markings like those I've seen on some of the photos but not a complete model number - it's just a 1/8 inch smudge then -01 in the same type face and size as the photos here at the Registry. The truss rod end looks just like the photos here as well.

Sound like the pickup unit (pus and pickguard) may be new. Japanese parts on it so it could be a Fender Japan - on the other hand it's all in great condition for the price - but would the original Tokai pups have been better than Fender Japan? Anyway I was budgeting to change these out for Fralins or Seymour Duncans or whatever. Any views on upgrades to pick-guard and PuPs?

Whaterever, I think I would keep the current Pick-up assembly as its good quality.

I actually think the Fender Japan pickups are rather good, I have a 95-96 jap strat with ceramic pickups and I was planning to replace them but they sound so good I've left them on the guitar (exept for the bridge pickup which is now a Seymour Duncan Little '59 humbucker). I've also had a few of the reissue model alnico pickups and they are also ok.

The pickups used by Tokai in the 80's on the strats and teles are good, the TST-80 had DiMarzio vintage pickups, even the ceramic pickups on the TST/AST-40 are ok. TST-50 and up had pickups with alnico magnets.

Of course there are better pickups but they are not cheap. On my AST-40 I use Duncans, the neck and middle are Hot Stacks (stacked single coils, hum free) and the bridge pickup is a Little '59. This guitar is very quiet, I really like this combination.

Micke

Hi Chris,

can't comment on whether your tokai is kosher..but can heartily recommend Lindy Fralin vintage hots as replacement pickups..i recently installed a set in my goldstar sound and just can't get over how good they sound 8)

I am half agree to javelin70, Low grade TST or TGS have no nice pick ups, but high grader have good one. BTW, I am little stuck with whether the neck of my springy is replaced from other springy, is there any way that I can check it from neck and body serial numbers? They are closely related... Does this means???

Drt - I don't think the neck has a serial number on it. Some have model numbers on the heel, but if the neck was replaced I'm not sure how you could tell. Nobody in 1980's though anyone would be interested - so no numbers just guitars.

I'm now a month on from buying this guitar and I still think it's great. Ab'd it against a students Squire the other day - not in the same league.

Secondly I used to be a doubter on maple necks - now I'm sold. It's sound is so clear and so sharp - and sustains so well. Reminds me of the same sort of effect you get with a Rickenbacker being all maple.

Hi Chris,
Im not touting for a sale (honest !) but I have a Genuine Tokai Goldstar Sound neck and body for sale on E-bay at the moment, so please use my photos for reference. If you have a look at the pics you will notice the markings on the neck heal and the body markings in the electrical cavity. All Tokais I have had over the years have this type of marking. Hope this is of help to you.
Regards
Nik

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2553613395&category=2384&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2553611378&category=2384&rd=1

Hi Mik - yes I have markings just like the ones you show in the photo ion the end of the neck and the truss rod end looks just like this as well. The guitar body has of course been sprayed several time sto get a three colour sunburst so I have quite a bit of paint in the cavities and no marking like you show. The neck shows signs of having been sprayed and then adjusted (routed out a little to accomodate the neck tightly) - but there is a blue pen initial/mark on that pocket that I seen on other Tokai bodies.

I've pretty much given up on what it is - it all looks genuine and the neck (which I was suspicious about because it's in such good condition) seems OK. The guitar plays perfectly and is well made and accurate so..... Can't see myself selling it anytime in the future so why sepnd more time on this. I should think that things in the Tokai guitar factory were more about quality than keeping the serial numbers and parts records - to judge by the manufacturers I have visited anyway - get the basic number on the neck plate and make it from whatever comes to hand and meets the spec. (bet there are Fenders out there with USA parts and necks that are used when something goes wrong in the inventory but are sold as MIJ or MIM Fenders - it's bound to happen at factory level and dealing with factory process costs) Why wouldn't Tokai be just the same? So long as you put the guitar together at no lesser quality level you knwo that guys in factories just get finished with whaever's at hand. It makes this whole dating/models/parts thing so hit and miss in reality.

Thanks for info though Nik - perhaps we can meet up when I'm around Birmingham.

Sorry Nik - that last post should have started Nik not Mik

Hi Chris,
Bottom line I guess is to just enjoy the guitar you have for what it is. You can try 10 supposedly identical guitars back to back, and one will feel great and better than the others to you for no apparent reason.
I came across my favourite guitar by chance when passing a little guitar shop in Sutton Coldfield in Birmingham a couple of years ago. A red relic looking Strat, pretty knocked about with a scratchy Fender Decal on the head stock. I just liked the look of it in the window, when I asked what it was I was told it was a Tokai. At the time I new nothing about the make and had to trust him on it. I played it and just had to have it (?450 at the time if I remember right). This guitar got me hooked on Tokai Guitars and have learned a lot since, mainly with help from articles and people contributing to this website. So hopefully you will get a taste for these great guitars and perhaps add to your collection over time.
Regards
Nik

If you have seen my other posts about sellingthis guitar, well I changed my mind after taking the photos, seeing they looked so good, and an in the eBay environment having daft quastions asked and the spectre of being offered stupid low bids.

It's just too good to sell. Plays better than any custom and deluxe Fenders I've tried. So its going to stay.

Back in 2005 I changedthe PUs for three SD Alnico 2 replacements. Changed the guitar so much for the better. I can thoroughly recommend these PUs f you arelooking for that Buddy Holly to SRV sound of an old Strat. Lovely U shaped freq response and sort of compressed. Classic. I think this guitar has a complete James Bond set of of theme music in it! Haha!

Wow, an 11 year old thread bump !!! That's some good tokai all right. Nice update, glad you are still enjoying.

My Tokai dillema - sell or not sell - reminded me how hard itis to find guitars that are just right for you and your best playing. I've just seen to many of my students fall in love with the idea of owning a Fender Stratocaster or Gibson Les Paul a long time beforethey have even played one - or even played a guitar that is similar. Such is the power of marketing and endorsements.

We are all at risk. Back inthe 60s as a 17 ear old my hero played a Rickenbacker - so I bought a Rickenbacker - even though buying an Epiphone Casino would have suited me beterr and a Casino would have been a guitar I would have kept. What would that have been worth now - a 1963 original Casino? I sold the Rickenbacker in 1967, swapped it for a 12 string acoustic - one of my dumbest decisions!

But coming back to playing and teaching in the last 12 years has brought me into contact with all sorts of intersting professional players - and these guys are making a living with their instuments. Stuart hamm the bass player ussed a Fender of his own design for 18 years because Fender also had it a signature model - he used another bass before Fender made their offer and went on the Wasburn went the deal finished. Russ Barenberg uses a Gibson 1948 J45 he found and has used no thier Gibson until he once found an Epiphone Masterbuilt (the Japanese one not the Masterbilt) and payed it everywhere because it sounded so good - I asked as I had seen him playing an Epiphone on TV lots of times. And so it goes on with mnay players - I am amazed at how many pros have told me they are using a particular instrument because it has been given them - and has been 'adjusted' to their particular preferences.

I believe early Tokais play and have the same quality and their equivalent Fenders of that era and earlier. I have never played a poor Tokai, Takamine, Japanese built Fender, or Japanese built acoustic (like Russ Barenbergs Epi). Pros use instrumnets because they do the job of earning a living - spending a lot of money on guitars is an expenseeand looknfor ways around doing that. Amateurs are often just feeding a need to fill the gap between their playing ability and their ego - perhaps buying an expensive guitar goes along with owning a Rolex and a BMW 7 series.

Since retiring I have been downsizing the guitar assets quite a bit. At this point I have realised I only have one USA made guitar - a Guild from 1981. The other four are made in Japan and another from Korea. The Guild I kept because it was my first real good guitar since the 60s. The rest are their because they play so well.

I would thoroughly recommend students and better players look at Tokais from the 80's before going elsewhere and if that doesn't fit then the Presige Ibanez's, Takamine, top end Yamahas, and the like. The electrics can easily be fixed up - but you want quality build and materials first or you have nothing.

Those are the thoughts of a 67 year old who's been playing for 55 years.

Chris Downing said:

Those are the thoughts of a 67 year old who's been playing for 55 years.

Click to expand...

And they were well worth reading. 8)

My only (constructive) criticism is that, for two reasons, you didn't need to be specific about 'early' Tokais - first, the modern ones are still fantastic. My 2001 model is the best guitar I've ever played, bar none. Second, the oldest Tokais were actually considered *better* than the Fenders and Gibsons of the time and are widely regarded as a key driving force behind the creation of 'vintage reissue' market.

From a player slightly less than half your age :lol:

Thanks Ned. Just trying to be careful about what I actually have experience of, and/or know. I have no experience of more recent Tokais - the ones I have played were 80's models.

As far as you comparison comments go - since I don't live on the street with a blanket and a lurcher dog, I couldn't possible comment! But I do know lots of guys were buying Tokais in the 80s who could have bought Fenders - there wasn't a huge difference in price actually.

What I do know is my Tokai is better than the Japanese Telecaster and USA Telecaster I owned in the past, Better than a couple of inexpensive Chinese Strats and Teles I've owned, Pretty much the same to play as my Guild butbthe Tokai has much more sustain, and better than all the guitars my students have played (lets say that's something like 200 instruments) including a couple of DeLuxe Stratocasters. But hey, that's only one guys opinion, me, what do I know?

I have three STs. A 1979 ST100, a 1981 ST80, and a 1983 (?) ST60. I play the ST60 the most because it's sitting out on a stand and easy to grab. The pickups were switched out by a previous owner, Hilton Valentine who at one time was the guitarist for the Animals and big into skiffle music. He put 1990s era fender re-issue pickups in it that I love. It's a heavier guitar than the ST80 and ST100, but very solid and has great tone. Love that guitar!

That neck looks exactly the same as mine. Do you think that radius is 7 1/2" or about 9"? Love the feel of that varnished finish - quite rare on modern guitars. Nd the small frets are so nice to play. Terrrific sustain.