Holy Grail guitars

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flboater

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So I am not sure if this is the right forum for this topic but what do you all think would be the "holy grail" vintage guitars from; TOKAI, BURNY GRECO? I know that each of these has particular years and models that just seem that have it all together. For sake of our sanity how about this is limited to guitars that are reasonable to find - not common and not inexpensive per-se but certainly models that show up.
 
Hmmm, interesting parameters.
For pre-85 Tokai, that would be mostly '80' series for Fender replicas and '100-120' series for Gibson style.
Whilst you will OCCASIONALLY find serious top end models come up for sale from year to year ( mostly '200' for LS,ES,TE or 120 for others) I would tend to think that 80-100's are the more accessable.
Jacco would know more about Greco whilst Burny were very close in cost and features to Tokai and could be viewed as the same if the numbers match.

Peter Mac
 
as far as "gold standards" go... my impression is such:

tokai st80
tokai ls80
orville 59r
burny rlg50 (but a nice top!)
greco egf 850/1000/1200


those are the ones that sell/people want to buy anyway
 
It seems like to me that the golden era was around 1980 for Tokai and Fujigen built guitars. Probably other Japanese mfrs. as well but that has been my impression.

I have had Tokia LS80s, a 120, and ST80 & 100 all from around that period. All amazing guitars that I would put up against anything out there.

If you want a solid top rather than a veneer over a maple cap, you will pay more, but IMHO that is just aesthetics. :p
 
very interesting response and thanks. So, why did you not include the Greco 1800, Tokai LS120 or Burny flg 150/240? is it because these are considered harder to find, are they not any better than the same year/model but lower number or are they just not worth the extra money that one would have to pay to get one?

As far as the slid tops - sure they don't effect sound but I kind of thought that if the extra effort went into that aspect of the guitar then would the rest of the guitar not also have a higher quality?
 
that's just my own personal list of what people seem interested in buying...
didn't put egf1800 as they are rare as rocking horse **** and anyone interested in paying upwards of $2.5k for one will be doing so for the collectibility and not the increase in playability
same for higher end tokais in my opinion, but ive never owned more than an ls80. cant comment on higher end burnys
 
flboater said:
very interesting response and thanks. So, why did you not include the Greco 1800, Tokai LS120 or Burny flg 150/240? is it because these are considered harder to find, are they not any better than the same year/model but lower number or are they just not worth the extra money that one would have to pay to get one?

As far as the slid tops - sure they don't effect sound but I kind of thought that if the extra effort went into that aspect of the guitar then would the rest of the guitar not also have a higher quality?
Click to expand...

As a matter of fact I have owned a 1980 FLG240, several 1980 EGF1800s and 1980 LS-120s at the same time, so had the advantage of side by side comparison.
Regarding LP models and although it's all personal preference and Burny's were made by several different factories, in general a Burny is for me a few steps lower than Greco and Tokai. And that's not just based on that one FLG-240.

Tokai gets really good from LS-80 and up. Higher than LS-80 is no certainty that it will be a better guitar. So holy grail for Tokai can very well be a LS-80.

Greco EGF-1200 and up, because of the Dry-Zs. As I prefer solid tops, my preference goes to the 1800s. Greco's from 1980-81 are really very different from Tokai's in feel. Hard to describe what it is. It's certainly is the the more shouldered neck you get with the Greco, but also the Greco has generally more treble sparkle whereas a Tokai has that deep woody mid sound. Maybe you understand.

Burny's look very good, especially the Terada FLGs from 1980/81 and also the 1981-1985 plain top Kasuga's. But feel more toylike to me. Far less 3D sound and more stringy, I don't like that.

This is all generalisation of course.
 
For me, the Holy Grail model is not one of the most high-end vintage examples. I have had several Burnys, Tokais and Grecos - even an EG1000D, and several Gibsons as well. But the best sounding among them are my current (2011-2013) Tokai Love Rock models (LS 95, LS 100) - which is quiet surprising considering their price (around 800 GBP brand-new).
For this price you get a solid 2-piece bookmatched back, a solid maple top with very nice figuring, a wireless ABR-1 bridge with brass saddles, a bone nut, a true 59-style 1-piece neck, good quality 500k pots and caps, MK2 pickups with braided wires, and the tightest fitted medium tenon neck joint I have ever seen. This is unbeatable quality for the price.
Also, the mahogany Tokai uses today must be a very high-grade African type, because they sound fuller than my older MIJ examples. Also, the MK2 pickups are killer. They sound similar to Gibson's Burstbucker Pros and '57 Classics - which I also love by the way - but thicker with better sustain.

Here is one of my Tokais:

12465921084_951eed403e_b.jpg
 
Well said Passenger, the current Tokais are amazing guitars.
For holy grail though I still prefer my Tokai 1981 LS-150 with the 58 neck though.
I am wondering why I still have a gibson R8 in the collection.
 
Of course my Tokai LS120, Greco EGF1200 and OBG LPC-57B are great sounding and playing LP's but I also really like the current Tokai's. This 2013 LS116F is really awesome. Nitro, Grover's and Seymour Duncan SH1 and SH4's. Perfectly setup and intonated out of the box.

dsc_8927.jpg
 
Hi Jockai,

Sorry to inform you there are no such guitars made in the '80s. To the best of my knowledge, Tokai has never made FV or EX models using 'Korina' wood (White Limba).
Their FV and EX models are mahogany bodied.

Peter Mac
 

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