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New Member, Counterfeit Tokai owner?
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Diamond
Guitar God


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 1650
Location: ZA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sell dozens of made in China Tokais every month.
Never had a single problem, they don't leave the factory until they've been inspected by a Japanese luthier in the QC department.

I ordered seven FA70 models, I only got five, why?
The Japanese inspector wasn't 100% happy with the other two so they didn't include them in the shipment.

The LS48F and ES60 models are great guitars, my best sellers.
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travisbickle
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my case, no one could have inspected this guitar. It is probably a reject, a second, or a 'blem' job. Whatever it is, it needs MAJOR work.
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Diamond
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Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 1650
Location: ZA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

travisbickle wrote:
In my case, no one could have inspected this guitar. It is probably a reject, a second, or a 'blem' job. Whatever it is, it needs MAJOR work.


Then it didn't leave the Tokai China factory "legitimately"...Tokai don't export to the USA.
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mirrorboy
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 491
Location: U.K.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the original poster. Have you tried raising your concerns with the seller? Looks to me like he has a line on some B stock there. Maybe he would exchange it for another (better) one.

Over here in England we have Distance Selling Regulations (in addition to any eBay protection) for internet purchases, that allow a certain time to examine the goods and reject them if unsatisfactory.
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travisbickle
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

he sold it as 'used', so I think he is covered. His return Policy was 3 days and since I got wrapped up in Xmas crap and having to rush my brother (stroke victim) to the hospital where he was in a coma for 9 days, I didn't get to the guitar for a week after it arrived. It looks great and was labeled 'Tokai', so I assumed I got what I paid for. Tokai will get back to me to see if the SN is good, or whether the guitar had been rejected. But since it is a Chinese job, that may take some time.
Anyway, I have my shop, and I will fix it during the winter months doldrums. I just wish I hadn't made am 'Impulse' buy!!
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JVsearch
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Posts: 2017
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry mate, sounds like you got a dog. The vintage style tailpiece setup with a mid 70's neck angle sounds like it may be unworkable.
Add to that, it sounds like there are issues with the straightness of the neck/frets.
That scarf joint = low end/budget build quality I'm afraid, although it's a strong joint and there's nothing wrong with it when it's used close to the headstock IMO.

One of the LPs that I had was tonally destroyed by a tech cranking the tailpiece all the way down onto the top. It was night and day difference and it sucked.

Many luthiers (if pushed) will tell you that 10-46 is the absolute minimum string size you can use on a Gibson scale guitar.
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travisbickle
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's life. I am old enough to accept it. These are the consequences of MY actions, and since I thought that a Tokai V style guitar would go very fast at the auction, I offered my best price and it was accepted. Then things happened very quickly, and this is what it ends up being. Now, i will just deal with it, and move on. Dwelling on stuff does not provide any solution, just lingering misery. I've had my share of girlfriends who would'nt take the hint, so I know all to well what that is like!! Ha! lol G'Day Mates.

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travisbickle
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tokai-Flying-V-Electric-Guitar-Korena-Finish-FV48-KOR-/400540760027?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item5d4216f7db

I just received an email from Tokai that my FV48 is indeed, counterfeit. They are contacting the seller (UK) of the instrument above, and are asking him to provide documentation as they suspect his is ersatz, as well. Anyway, they are posting a 'Counterfeit' warning on their website, and it is basically leveled at all Tokai 'EBAY' sales, so take it as you wish. For me, I can now get my $$$ back, and hunt for a GENUIINE Japanese made Tokai, so maybe all will end well (I HOPE??!!).
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CW
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Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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Location: Basingstoke, England

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to hear that! Not that you'd bought a counterfeit, but that you'll be able to get your money back.


All the best,

CW
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Diamond
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Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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Location: ZA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

travisbickle wrote:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tokai-Flying-V-Electric-Guitar-Korena-Finish-FV48-KOR-/400540760027?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item5d4216f7db

I just received an email from Tokai that my FV48 is indeed, counterfeit. They are contacting the seller (UK) of the instrument above, and are asking him to provide documentation as they suspect his is ersatz, as well. Anyway, they are posting a 'Counterfeit' warning on their website, and it is basically leveled at all Tokai 'EBAY' sales, so take it as you wish. For me, I can now get my $$$ back, and hunt for a GENUIINE Japanese made Tokai, so maybe all will end well (I HOPE??!!).


I'm confused.
I thought you bought your guitar from seller "ratfart" in the USA?
Are you in the USA or UK?
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travisbickle
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I bought it in the US. The link I reiterated was provided to me by another member in response to a question I had about set neck guitars ever being made in China by Tokai. That is the link in UK he provided me in response to that supposition. I forwarded that to TOKAI, and they are asking that seller for documentation. Pleas see one of the earlier responses with the thread from a few days earlier, and I think it will clear a lot up.
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carl300367
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Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 82
Location: england

PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

travisbickle wrote:
Yes, I bought it in the US. The link I reiterated was provided to me by another member in response to a question I had about set neck guitars ever being made in China by Tokai. That is the link in UK he provided me in response to that supposition. I forwarded that to TOKAI, and they are asking that seller for documentation. Pleas see one of the earlier responses with the thread from a few days earlier, and I think it will clear a lot up.


that does surprise me as rockem is an official tokai dealer here in the uk
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travisbickle
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The EBAY guitar in UK might not be ersatz. Tokai is just doing their leg work, so that particular guitar might be OK. Mine had some serious discrepancy i the Serial# and the electronics, as well as the neck setup.
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travisbickle
I only know 3 chords


Joined: 18 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After many many emails to distributors and vendors, and research jaunts on the internet, I have determined that the guitar is not COUNTERFEIT, and it is indeed a Tokai FV48 manufactured in China in 2010. I actually pinpointed it to the exact line of serials and there are no double #'s.
After refretting back to 148's and replacing all the cheapo hardware, electronics , and PUps (SD P Gates), and repairing the truss rod nut, I have found I can live with the bridge a little higher than what I am accustomed to, but bringing down the fret size also lowered the action. The line of V'smade in China seems to be modeled after the 4* angles used in the 70's, and that is where that oval headstock comes into play, as well.
To make a long story even longer, After a good 3 days on the bench, I have determined that the basic core of the guitar is indeed well crafted, and since the major overhaul and upgrades, plays as well as any Gibson V that I have ever owned. I just wish the previous owner did not twist the neck (rescued,WHEW!!), and did not try his hand at fretwork when it was apparent that he was not qualified.
Color me satisfied. The seller agreed to refund my $$$ in full, and being a US guy, he sez that TOKAI in Japan does this to him all the time (deals in used Tokais' only per law), as if they don't want people to know they make some of their 'GOOD' stuff in China, much like all the Auto Makers in the US do the same protestations. So being XMAS and all, I set about with my tools in my shop.
Made in China, Korea, India , RVN, etc. etc. what is the difference between TOKAI and Ibanez, Jacksons, Deans, ESP's etc. etc. etc.

NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IMO
AND THEY ARE AS GOOD AS THEY ARE ANYWHERE ELSE!!!
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brokentoes
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Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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Location: Bronte by the Sea, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno bud, sounds like you had to recraft nearly the entire guitar. Luckily you had the time and skills to do this. I have bought a few cheapies myself that were pretty good right out of the box, minor setup tweaks and good to go.

I'm glad it all worked out for you
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