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Expert Opinions Please

 
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J.E.M.
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Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Expert Opinions Please Reply with quote

This one's been for sale on Toronto Kijiji for years and I'm not exagerating, last time I asked he wanted $1300 USD.

I've seen this one a thousand times but today I noticed a couple of things - the walnut plug on the headstock looks really stretched out, also it's a hardtail and I've never seen one of those.

I know the pics aren't great and there's little info given but any opinions on the possibility of it being a legit "1970's springy sound"

Here's the kijji advert http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-musical-instruments-guitars-1970s-tokai-springy-sound-strat-W0QQAdIdZ540160274








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hunter
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Joined: 07 Sep 2007
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Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert but I think a 78-80 would have a round string tree, not square??
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jonah65
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
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Location: weymouth, uk

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pretty sure the shape of the string tree is in line with the year being copied,
as opposed to the year it was built.
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Reborn Old
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Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm far from being an ST model expert, but would ask the seller if the bridge intonation adjusters have the Tokai name engraved on them.

It could be a special order model. Tokai engraving on the bridge would help validate the differences, even if they are removable parts.
With a white finish, there's a remote possibility the trem arm receiver was filed off, and body filled, but overall condition doesn't point to this.

The truss rod plug shape means the channel access hole was drilled at a slightly lower angle and since this was done by hand,
minor shape differences don't point to a fake.

If the neck plate has an engraved number, the 1st digit will identify the production year, except in 1982.
In 1982, the final year for Spaghetti logos, serial numbers have less than 7 digits.
If no neck plate serial number, the number should be stamped in the neck pocket, otherwise the neck plate wouldn't be original.
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bluesyrat
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it normal to see the hardtail bridge?
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marcusnieman
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Joined: 22 May 2003
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluesyrat wrote:
Is it normal to see the hardtail bridge?


I've never seen a Springy with a hardtail.
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marcusnieman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluesyrat wrote:
Is it normal to see the hardtail bridge?


I've never seen a Springy with a hardtail.
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J.E.M.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hardtail can't be right can it? what 50's model fender would they be copying.

I know the headstock plug can be tapered but in general when I look at a springy or goldstar I see the plug much shorter, like it's cut at an angle that results in a stubby plug.

I just get the feeling it 's a fender or allparts neck with a decal and who knows what king of body.
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marcusnieman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.E.M. wrote:
The hardtail can't be right can it? what 50's model fender would they be copying.
.


59 strat came with a hardtail option in both a maple and rosewood board:

http://www.hi-guitars.com/VG1674.html
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J.E.M.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so it's an oxymoron - a hardtail springy sound
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Suki
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Joined: 22 Feb 2013
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Location: London, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree the headstock plug doesn't look right. It's too dark and elongated. Headstock and tuners look a little too pristine for age and apparent condition of body. I've never seen a hardtail springy.

Easy things to check would be:

1. Are the tuners stamped? Should be Tokai or Deluxe

2. Are the bridge saddles stamped? Should be Final Prospec or most likely Tokai

3. Neckplate serial number? Should be 7 digit starting 8, 9, (for "78/'79) 0 or 1 (for ''80/81) else should be L series ('82).

4. Stamp on fretboard last fret, e.g. "50"? If no stamp, it must have an L series neckplate.

More detailed check would be:

1. Body cavity stamps: "XX = XX" plus colour stamp "OW" for Olympic White.

2. Stamp on neck heel: "XX =XX" usually corresponding to body stamp.

3. Pickups should be grey bottomed U or E stamped.

4. Should have brass shielding control plate.

5. Truss rod adjuster should be allen key for 70's springy, not cross head screw like later springys.
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J.E.M.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your help guys...
So, has anyone seen a hardtail Tokai?
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Peter Mac
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

To the best of my knowledge, NO Springy was made in hardtail.
- Suki, I love your work. Just a few corrections...
*Neck is maple, so no 'L' serial number for 82 (R'wood only) either 4 digit or 5 digit - string tree indicates 5 digit starting with 0, 1 or 2.
* Neck plate is after '78 build so serial # will be on neckplate.
* Colour is not OW, but SW Snow White
* String tree also indicates an ST-50 as ST-60 up were round.

As SW did not become an option until after 1984, I'd say this is a fake. . . or at the very least a Partscaster. Neck would be from an ST-50 Springy at best.
regards
Peter
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