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Matching body/neck codes misinformation?
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Do body/neck codes have to match?
Yep, to be all original
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
By no means
55%
 55%  [ 11 ]
Don?t know
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
Don't care
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 20

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bluesyrat
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my st100 codes:






mismatched... but i have absolutely no evidence of not originals...

this is my sold st50





little mismatching but all original too
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Reborn Old
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

felixcatus wrote:
at what point in the assembly or production process are the codes added?

I would think necks + bodies were pre-shaped + fitted later,
so at a QC stage between initial body routing/shaping and finish/assembly stages, I would think,
based on finishes being over top of stampings.
Necks + bodies would probably be placed in alignment jig + final fitted,
necks stamped along with corresponding bodies.

I found an S-45 stamp in the pickup cavity of a 1990 LS model,
with TLS-55 model number in the other pickup cavity.
Other 1990's LP stampings were S-3, S-8
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felixcatus
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Mac wrote:
With Tokai though, taking an ST-80 neck and putting it on an ST45 body and selling it as an ST-80 to me is fraud. Tell the buyer and if they are still interested, then sell it.

Peter Mac

I agree, and you got me thinking.

Let?s take my Breezy as an example:
1980 TE80 ? nitro body and neck ? one piece body ? ?A? stamped body and neck ? 80 stamp on the last fret on the fretboard ? spaghetti logo ? codes don?t match.

Ok, let?s pressume that the codes have to match for the guitar to be original. With the above described specs, I?m pretty sure the body and neck are from a 1980 - TE80. So if the body or neck was changed at some point it won?t be original. But I can still call it a genuine 1980 - TE80, or am I seeing this wrong?
And if I think one step ahead. Isn?t it more likely that the codes just don?t have to match? What are the odds of finding a time period correct neck, if it was swapped at a later date? Considering that they stopped adding the 80 stamp on the fretboard somewhere in early 1980 (at least that is what I have read here on the forum).

To be clear, no big deal when my guitar turns out to be a ?partscaster?. It does what its supposed to do, its my main go to device and fine as is.
But it may be more important to people who inquire and check for authenticity for a possible future purchase .
So are we giving the correct information or conveying the wrong message here? Because a lot of recent posts are focused on matching codes.

PS I?m not criticizing or correcting other point of views.
Its just my 2 brain cells colliding, man that hurts.
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Suki
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears to be just before painting.
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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Felix,
I would like to know what the 2 codes are for them to be mismatched on the TE-80.
Her are some simple things to check...
Fingerboard - Maple ('52) or Rosewood ('64)
Scratchplate : (M = 5 screw single ply) or (R = 8 screw multi ply)
Logo placement (M= between nut and round string tree) or (R = between square string tree and end of headstock)
Also as the spacing of the neck plate differs from 82-up and pre-79 so if the neck was replaced, it could only have been one made between 1980 and 1981 unless there are a second lot of screw holes.

Peter Mac
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felixcatus
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote















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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome pics, Felix

The neck pocket does show enlargement of the mounting holes which to me indicates a different neckplate has been used.
At a guess I would say this was originally an 80-81 maple neck that had an '82 Rosewood put on it.
I am not saying this IS THE CASE - just a possibility due to the very wide number range.

Peter Mac
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J.E.M.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what do you guys make of this pair..

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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.
.
.OK JEM,

My first impression would be ST-60 Springysound body YSOR has had a maple neck put on it..
Can't determine year without serial number though.
Headstock pic and pickup codes would be helpful too.

Peter Mac
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J.E.M.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for responding Peter, from what I've read here on the forum it's an '84 Goldstar and as you can see the sticker is still in place, St50.

Granted it doesn't mean much, but I got it from a guy who says he was the original owner, bought in Toronto in '85 - says the only thing done to it was installing a pearloid 3 ply allparts guard and allparts knobs. He gave me the originals and they're back on it now - guard is single ply white, saddles are Final Prospec and tuners are Deluxe

If you look in the control cavity you can see there's a different code that's been sprayed over - looks like 7=4 _ _ (can't read) Z

Any clue what that symbol ahead of the number 8 on the neck stamp means.

One more thing, what are the possibilities that dealers/distributors in some countries were switching parts around on these guitars, maybe they'd spot a really nice body on one and another with a really nice neck?

I don't see the availability of spare genuine Tokai parts (in Canada anyway), now or at that time, to make it possible to switch parts on so many guitars that come up like they do, only dealers would have the option to swap parts, no?







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CliffsComicWorld
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting thread. Here is my 1978 ST-100


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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,
OK I'll try to address the 3 guitars...
Felix TE : body is TE-80 but neck might be TE-120. Logo seems to have been moved from in front of string tree (lighter area) Pre-1981

JEM ST : it seems as though there was a change in finish most likely because the body wood has a good grain - it seems originally meant for solid colour but changed to YSO.

Cliff ST : Nice guitar - body and neck are a match. ST-100N 1979-80?

regards
Peter Mac
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felixcatus
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Mac wrote:

Felix TE : Logo seems to have been moved from in front of string tree (lighter area) Pre-1981

Window reflection (sorry, not a good photo to use as an example ).


Here?s another photo.



PS it also has Tokai stamped tuner housings and ?80? stamp on last fret, the logo is under the lacquer.

Its a genuine hybrid.
?52 features: body pickguard holes ? round string tree - headstock logo and string tree placement
?56 features: ?V? shape neck ? sharp edged headstock
?62 features: veneer rosewood fingerboard
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Peter Mac
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Felix,

You know those 3 features were used on TE-120 necks, if it wasn't for the '80' stamped on the fingerboard . . . .
At the least it's a very nice Breezy

Peter Mac
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jacco
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@JEM the other colour code on your strat is GS, so it was to be a sunburst also but in 2-tone instead of the 3-tone it is now.

@felix that is not enlargement of the holes on your TE body but just an impression of the drill that made the holes, it is on all bodies to a certain degee.

PS is that a golden Tokai logo on your breezy?


I have a blonde 1981 TE-50 with maple fretboard;
Neck code 9 = 8
Body code in neck pup cavity 5 = 1
Body code in control cavity 5 = 1 BL X
Neck plates serial 1019808
50 sticker on the neck
Same headstock configuration as felix but silver logo
2P off center seam body, white 7 screw 3-ply guard, 6 saddle Tokai bridge


Last edited by jacco on Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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