Matching body/neck codes misinformation?

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Do body/neck codes have to match?

  • Yep, to be all original

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • By no means

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don?t know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
Awesome pics, Felix

The neck pocket does show enlargement of the mounting holes which to me indicates a different neckplate has been used.
At a guess I would say this was originally an 80-81 maple neck that had an '82 Rosewood put on it.
I am not saying this IS THE CASE - just a possibility due to the very wide number range.

Peter Mac
 
So what do you guys make of this pair..
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.
.
.OK JEM,

My first impression would be ST-60 Springysound body YSOR has had a maple neck put on it..
Can't determine year without serial number though.
Headstock pic and pickup codes would be helpful too.

Peter Mac
 
Thank you for responding Peter, from what I've read here on the forum it's an '84 Goldstar and as you can see the sticker is still in place, St50.

Granted it doesn't mean much, but I got it from a guy who says he was the original owner, bought in Toronto in '85 - says the only thing done to it was installing a pearloid 3 ply allparts guard and allparts knobs. He gave me the originals and they're back on it now - guard is single ply white, saddles are Final Prospec and tuners are Deluxe

If you look in the control cavity you can see there's a different code that's been sprayed over - looks like 7=4 _ _ (can't read) Z

Any clue what that symbol ahead of the number 8 on the neck stamp means.

One more thing, what are the possibilities that dealers/distributors in some countries were switching parts around on these guitars, maybe they'd spot a really nice body on one and another with a really nice neck?

I don't see the availability of spare genuine Tokai parts (in Canada anyway), now or at that time, to make it possible to switch parts on so many guitars that come up like they do, only dealers would have the option to swap parts, no?

68561088.jpg


z3fb.jpg


kc45.jpg


a0w2.jpg
 
Hi guys,
OK I'll try to address the 3 guitars...
Felix TE : body is TE-80 but neck might be TE-120. Logo seems to have been moved from in front of string tree (lighter area) Pre-1981

JEM ST : it seems as though there was a change in finish most likely because the body wood has a good grain - it seems originally meant for solid colour but changed to YSO.

Cliff ST : Nice guitar - body and neck are a match. ST-100N 1979-80?

regards
Peter Mac
 
Peter Mac said:
Felix TE : Logo seems to have been moved from in front of string tree (lighter area) Pre-1981
Window reflection (sorry, not a good photo to use as an example :oops: ).


Here?s another photo.



PS it also has Tokai stamped tuner housings and ?80? stamp on last fret, the logo is under the lacquer.

Its a genuine hybrid. :D
?52 features: body pickguard holes ? round string tree - headstock logo and string tree placement
?56 features: ?V? shape neck ? sharp edged headstock
?62 features: veneer rosewood fingerboard
 
Hi Felix,

You know those 3 features were used on TE-120 necks, if it wasn't for the '80' stamped on the fingerboard . . . .
At the least it's a very nice Breezy

Peter Mac
 
@JEM the other colour code on your strat is GS, so it was to be a sunburst also but in 2-tone instead of the 3-tone it is now.

@felix that is not enlargement of the holes on your TE body but just an impression of the drill that made the holes, it is on all bodies to a certain degee.

PS is that a golden Tokai logo on your breezy?


I have a blonde 1981 TE-50 with maple fretboard;
Neck code 9 = 8
Body code in neck pup cavity 5 = 1
Body code in control cavity 5 = 1 BL X
Neck plates serial 1019808
50 sticker on the neck
Same headstock configuration as felix but silver logo
2P off center seam body, white 7 screw 3-ply guard, 6 saddle Tokai bridge
 
So, i know the LS-150 & 200 had cashew coloured logo's.
Can some one tell me if the higher end Fender type Tokai's had gold coloured logo's?
 
I didn't check strat models but TE-120 and TE-200 pre 83 models appear to both have silver spaghetti logos with black outlines.
Picture colors can sometimes be deceiving since flash can wash out color,
but I looked at a half dozen examples of varying quality, and decals all looked silver rather than gold.
Pre '83 TE-80 + 85's were a mix of silver and gold.
I'm not sure necks were all original however.

Could it be possible decal colors were chosen based on finish rather than model # ?
 
This thread intrigues me.
Back in '83 I was looking to buy my first 'good' guitar. My shortlist was a Yamaha SG1000S, Tokai ST50 and Squier Strat 57 Reissue.
I went with the Yamaha. Ironically, my Dad bought a Squier Strat - JV serial in fiesta red. At the time, the Squier and Tokai were within a couple of quid the same price and the Yamaha about ?100 dearer.
In the intervening years, I've kicked myself for not getting a Tokai, as they became hard to find and the new ones didn't seem to be up to the same standard as those early 80s ones.
About a year ago, I stumbled across mine on eBay. I wanted one with the interim block logo, as this seemed to be the most reliable way to date it - I remember these being the ones in stores in 83/4.
Mine has the same code on the neck and body, which if the info above is true, means it was made on my Dad's 40th. As I understand it, the number on the neck plate is largely irrelevant and is just a random number in the same style as the Fender era that the guitar is based on - a five digit '58' in my case.
The guitar has all the right parts and the soldering has never been disturbed.
Now, the bit that really intrigues me... regarding the number/originality, I'm inclined to say, "so what?".
The guitar is spectacularly good, but it's 'just' a Tokai. It hasn't appreciated in value (not even double what it was when it was new) anywhere near as much as the equivalent Squier Strat and considering mine and my Dad's were built in the same factory probably using the same parts, it shows you what difference a logo makes. Same goes for the Yamaha. Both the Yamaha and the Squier would fetch over double what the Tokai would...
I've no reason to suspect the Tokai is a fake. It would be extremely easy to fake, but why bother? These days, you can knock off a 100% accurate fake logo on yer laptop in minutes and it would be more profitable to sand the Tokai logo off and put a Squier, Fender or ESP logo on it.

Regarding the colour of the spaghetti logos, don't forget, these instruments are/were anally accurate copies of Fenders 'classic' era guitars, so the logos were coloured to replicate the colours of the Fender logo of the era the guitar represents.
Until Fender got shirty about it all, EVERYTHING on the early Tokai Fender 'replicas' was done the way Fender did it. When Fender changed anything, the Tokai copy had the same change - these were copies of vintage Fenders, not their current models of the time. For example, the Tele with the rosewood board... end on the rosewood is the thin curved laminate style. This indicates the neck is a replica of a post 62 Fender neck and so I would expect the stamped serial to have an 'L' prefix - pre62 rosewood was a slab board. 7 scratchplate screws on a Tele is a late 50s/60s style, early 50s Teles have a five screw plate. If you want to gauge the era your pre85 Fender copy Tokai is based on, compare the details with FENDER's info.
 
somebodyelseuk said:
Regarding the colour of the spaghetti logos, don't forget, these instruments are/were anally accurate copies of Fenders 'classic' era guitars, so the logos were coloured to replicate the colours of the Fender logo of the era the guitar represents.
Until Fender got shirty about it all, EVERYTHING on the early Tokai Fender 'replicas' was done the way Fender did it. When Fender changed anything, the Tokai copy had the same change - these were copies of vintage Fenders, not their current models of the time.
My Breezy isn?t exactly a carbon copy of ?the way Fender did it?.

somebodyelseuk said:
For example, the Tele with the rosewood board... end on the rosewood is the thin curved laminate style. This indicates the neck is a replica of a post 62 Fender neck and so I would expect the stamped serial to have an 'L' prefix - pre62 rosewood was a slab board. 7 scratchplate screws on a Tele is a late 50s/60s style, early 50s Teles have a five screw plate. If you want to gauge the era your pre85 Fender copy Tokai is based on, compare the details with FENDER's info.
As far as I know there are no vintage Fender Teles with a ?V? shaped neck and veneer rosewood fingerboard.
 
As for the codes, here?s an interesting one.

  • Quote harrison5:
    ?hi have just brought a tokai breezysound on ebay sort of metalic blue. with white binding.
    9-53 stamped on the neck there seems to been a pencil line though the 53 and then in pencil 65.
    on the body under the neck pickup it has written 9-53 and i think a letter D then 4br.?
 
felixcatus said:
somebodyelseuk said:
Regarding the colour of the spaghetti logos, don't forget, these instruments are/were anally accurate copies of Fenders 'classic' era guitars, so the logos were coloured to replicate the colours of the Fender logo of the era the guitar represents.
Until Fender got shirty about it all, EVERYTHING on the early Tokai Fender 'replicas' was done the way Fender did it. When Fender changed anything, the Tokai copy had the same change - these were copies of vintage Fenders, not their current models of the time.
My Breezy isn?t exactly a carbon copy of ?the way Fender did it?.

somebodyelseuk said:
For example, the Tele with the rosewood board... end on the rosewood is the thin curved laminate style. This indicates the neck is a replica of a post 62 Fender neck and so I would expect the stamped serial to have an 'L' prefix - pre62 rosewood was a slab board. 7 scratchplate screws on a Tele is a late 50s/60s style, early 50s Teles have a five screw plate. If you want to gauge the era your pre85 Fender copy Tokai is based on, compare the details with FENDER's info.
As far as I know there are no vintage Fender Teles with a ?V? shaped neck and veneer rosewood fingerboard.

There were some produced during a strike in 1962 when the management ended up producin the necks. They are extremely rare, but they do exist.
 
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