Questions about "vintage" Burny's.

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Hi Skywolf,

I have an old Burny -- I was told it was a '78, and it sounds a lot like yours. It has the steep headstock angle, it has the "thick" Les Paul model" on the headstock as well as the Gibson shaped truss rod cover. Mine doesn't have Fernandes on it though - but I've seen them on eBay.
The pickups sound great and are supposed to be the original VH-1's but there's no markings on them.

How big is the neck on yours?

Take care!

Jim
 
Hi Jim,

when you have one that's seems to be similar, they may well be "real" Burnys! Mine has a 60s neck, quite flat. A rich acoustic sound. I only played it briefly amplified, so I can't say much about the PUs yet. I think I will have to have them waxed as there's a lot of feedback (and I'm not playing high gain).

My guitar has a cool vintage sunburst, and the 2-piece body is a big piece (about 2/3) and a smaller one (about 1/3), the top is center joined. It has 70's style pot knobs. There is a stamped serial no (!). The pegs have been changed, I will put on Kluson reissues there.

I have some pics, maybe I can post them (I did that some time ago, I hope I remember). If you drop me a pm I can mail them to you.

Wolf
 
Fernandes(Burny) is building replicas since 1.972 so it makes sense.Any pic would help.
 
So here are the pics:

Top.jpg

Neck.jpg

Headstock_Front.jpg

Headstock_Back.jpg

Front.jpg

Frets.jpg

Back_Body.jpg

Back.jpg
 
OK, continuing with this link from my other thread re Hiro's current offering http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7338060587&indexURL=2#ebayphotohosting .

What appears to have happened (my guess) is that Burny/Fernandes were making their own Les Paul guitars quite happily until about 1979-80, ie nothing particularly to do with Tokai (except that most if not all Japanese makers were sharing/renting space in same factory premises, ie many makers under one roof, possibly swapping parts & using same machinery & designs etc.). But then about 79-80 Burny lost their own manufacturing capacity & either shared part of Tokais facilities or got Tokai to make the guitars for them ? for a while that resulted in very similar looking guitars bearing both names (Tokai & Burny/Fernandes) ? so you got some Tokais with Burny type features such as inked SN & holes in neck pup cavity (ie with Tokai on headstock), and conversely you also got some Burny/Fernandes guitars with Tokai features such as circuit board. These guitars mostly seem to date 1979-81, but so far I think the only logical conclusion is to accept the name on the headstock, ie if it has genuine Tokai logo then it?s Tokai, & if it says Burny or Fernandes then it?s Burny (albeit perhaps using & interchanging same/similar parts & construction on both guitars).

The original debate was about inked numbers, & I note that skywoolf?s guitar has impressed number (ie not inked). But skywoolf also has clear Fernandes/Burny on headstock, so I see no reason to regard that as a Tokai. One interesting thing though ? as we know, from 1978-80 Tokai impressed model number into end of Fretboard ? however, would be interesting to find a Burny from that period with same impressed model No. in fretboard,? but so far I?ve never seen or heard of that.

All just 2:cents of course :-? .
 
Interesting thoughts, Ned. I read the other thread, too. We're all educated guessers :lol:

I agree totally that my Burny is not likely to be linked to Tokai (that's why I posted it here). There are many differences to my LS-60 from 1980 (steeper headstock angle, no circuit board, different PUs, thin neck).

Luis, perhaps you can give more details about your Burny to compare?

Why is it so difficult to find out what went on in that time? A big secret!

Thanks to you all, it's fun as usual :D
 
Quote ?why so difficult to find out?? ? well it would be easy if Tokai would tell us, but apparently they wont! Afaik, many people have emailed them with questions in past, but little or no reply (I?m not Ned by the way, at least not as far as I know :eek: ? interested to see James chipping in here though, because like Luis he was involved with Tokai & this Forum right from the start ? nice to keep the original guys? James are you still watching mate?) :-? .

Skywoolf ? on your guitar the impressed S/N makes me think it's just prior to the Burny's made at Tokai factory,... but in any case it?s a very nice early MIJ Les Paul ? wouldn?t be surprised if it was v.similar quality to those early Tokais ... but tell me what S/N is that on the headstock, it's a little tricky to make out the first 2 digits?

Ian.
 
Hey Skywolf,

I think your guitar and mine are very similar. Mine has a rather slim neck and the impressed serial number as well. I'll try to upload some pictures for you tonight!

Jim
 
My stray thoughts on "why it is so difficult."

While there may have been no actual lawsuits, there were probably some threats to do so by Gibson and Fender. Gibson is certainly rattling its sabres these days. Tokai may be tightlipped about the history of their LP and Strat replicas because if they released details of their attempts to "nail" (and in fact surpass) the originals, it could be seen as a tacit admission of their copy intentions from the get-go. It would serve them no purpose (though it sure would help the forum) and in fact damage them legally. I think the best future information will come from people who carefully piece together the long and confusing saga, probably without the blessings of Tokai Gakki. But then again, this is a really good mystery, and that's fascinating in itself! :wink:
 
Ian, sorry for calling you Ned :oops: I think it happened because it's your two names on the list as moderators and both three characters ...

The serail on the Burny is xx62704 - with the x not indication numbers I don't want to tell, there are really two x impressed :-?

Yeah, the mystery is facinating, that's why we discuss things like this :D I think the legal question is a good point to the question why they don't tell us.

Cheers Wolf
 
Hi ian

I still look in occasionally. When I first got involved it was during a very quiet period at work so I was on here all the time! I'd just bought an 81 ES100J from Lee (oldflame to you guys) and wanted to find out about it. It was great fun chatting to other Tokai owners and learning together. Glad to see its still going on and that the research we all did back then is still being added to.

I've also owned a black 81 Love Rock, a sunburst Goldstar and a Breezysound. The only one I've got left is the Breezysound, which has been stripped (had a dodgy green refin on it when I got it) and has a Squier JV neckplate on it!

At the moment I've also got the Burny SG, the Burny LP Special and a recently purchased Squier JV strat. I'm looking to sell the SG so if anyone is interested let me know (particularly if you have a nice plain top Burny Les Paul standard, or Burny/Greco LP junior to trade).

Cheers

James
 
Skywolf ? ha, I was only kidding about calling me Ned, I just thought it was amusing lol :) . Hmm, strange that first 2 digits are just XX ? I was hoping it might be a Tokai style 7-digit number with first 2 digits indicating the date, oh well back to the drawing board :-? .

James ? thanks, good to hear from you ? sorry to hear your almost clean out of Tokais now ? but I appreciate all that early stuff you posted when the forum began, I think it makes interesting reading & clearly shows what guys did & did not know at the time ? very open discussions with everyone feeling their way, more direct investigative style than we have now :-? .

Ian.
 
Many thanks Jim, a very nice Gold Top this one! I can't clearly see the serial no, but I think it also starts with xx, doesn't it? Are the tuning pegs the original ones? The pot knobs are different from mine. Is there anything written on the PUs?

Ian :lol: 8) By the way, I've learned a lot reading old threads here! Theanks to all who share their knowledge and ideas!
 
Hi Wolf,

My serial number is all numbers. I've taken out the pickups (and actually rotated them - neck pickup seemed a bit muddy and the bridge a bit shrill - seems good now), and I didn't find any markings on the bottom. Mine has a short neck tennon (I think all Burny's do actually...)

The tuners are original, Andrew told me that Burny didn't start using the tulip Klusons until a few years after this one was made. The tuners look a bit ugly in the photo but they're OK in person. :)

Take care!

Jim
 
No serial number on LC-80 and 60 Burnys I had.Binding covering frets in both.A sort of medium/thin neck profile.
Agree about tuners,not kluson,that I did not like.
 
Hi guys!

Its funny, I bought this guitar w/o even reading this thread!
I came across this forum when researching the guitar as I always obsessively do when I buy a new toy-

I bought this guitar as a player, im really not interested in resale value, as I will be modding it. After reading this, do you guys think it will really have the same quality and construction as a Tokai? Did I get beat on this by thinking it was a tokai? I don't care as much about electronics, as much as the tonewoods and construction.

Do you guys think it would be worth coughing up the cash for a nitro finish? Probably about 400-500?

Also, this may seem unconventional to some, but im planning on adding an EMG-81, and a Seth Lover 59 PAF in the neck (very versatile setup). Anyone familiar w/ the sound of these pickups in tokai/burny? What do you do with the circut board? Yank it?
 
wcgary83 said:
Do you guys think it would be worth coughing up the cash for a nitro finish? Probably about 400-500?
No... but welcome to the forum nevertheless! :wink:

Also, this may seem unconventional to some, but im planning on adding an EMG-81, and a Seth Lover 59 PAF in the neck (very versatile setup). Anyone familiar w/ the sound of these pickups in tokai/burny? What do you do with the circut board? Yank it?
I'm not a big fan of the Seymour Duncan SH-1 '59 (if you mean that one and not their Seth Lover SH-55) as a neck pickup, because to me it sounds too boomy in most guitars, but might work out if that Burny is lacking some of these frequencies. I don't know the EMG, so I can't comment on that. The circuit board is fine in my opinion, but others have a different opinion. As far as I know, no one has made an A/B comparison yet, because that would mean a lot of soldering... :wink:
 

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