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Tokai Goldstar Sound Candy Apple Red, No Serial... Fake??

 
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mark_p86
Plucker


Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Posts: 5
Location: St. Helens, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Tokai Goldstar Sound Candy Apple Red, No Serial... Fake?? Reply with quote

Hey everybody, this is my first post here so firstly I'd like to say hello! - then hopefully would like some expertise on a trade I made earlier today... This site looks like it has a wealth of useful knowledge from people who really know their stuff, and there are some serioulsy great looking instruments!

Basically, being mainly a Strat and Tele player, joining a band on bass and rapidly running out of room for gear (and at the insistance of my girlfriend) I decided to downsize my guitar collection over the past couple of weeks. I sold a couple, swapped a couple then ended up with a MIM Tele and a partscaster Strat left on Gumtree that I couldn't seem to shift, when yesterday I got a message from a local guy who had some stuff to part-ex if I was interested. He showed up at my house with 3 guitars: an Epiphone Limited Edition G400 in Ebony, all gold hardware with a Maestro trem, a '92 Lake Placid Blue MIM Strat in very poor condition, and in the 3rd case what appeared to be a Tokai Candy Apple Red Goldstar Sound. The guy didn't really know much about it, but said he had owned it for a while and that despite having no markings or serial numbers on the neck or neck pocket, the pots were marked "Made in Japan". Also, neither the scratchplate or backplate were original, but everything else was stock as far as he was aware. I had a play of each and decided on the Epiphone, then decided on the "Tokai" mainly because of the neck being a very similar feel to my MIJ Fender '62 reissue Telecaster, it had a nice weight to it, sounded great through my amp, and also figuring that if it didn't turn out to be genuine, trading one partscaster for a better put together one with a nicer neck is better than a poke in the eye. Anyway, after he left, I restrung it but also took the pickguard off for a look inside and took a few photos to see if anybody could send some clues my way as to the legitimacy and origins of this guitar. It had been copper shielded, so I removed it incase there were any markings underneath:

http://imageshack.us/a/img824/4240/sam0466u.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img836/7893/sam0467da.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img404/7834/sam0468d.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img69/3255/sam0469rg.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img441/4581/sam0474f.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img607/2040/sam0472h.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img850/9189/sam0473hv.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img849/4931/sam0470u.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img13/786/sam0471uj.jpg

Any opinions or info would be greatly appreciated, I'm not convinced that I made the trade of the century, I'm basically just curious as to what I've ended up with.

Thanks in advance!!!
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brokentoes
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Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 1226
Location: Bronte by the Sea, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there was made in korea goldstars with that export headstock, perhaps the hardware including pots, were japanese ?? I'm not enough of an expert on Tokai strats to tell you for sure one way or the other however. Hopefully someone with more of a eye can tell you for sure. Enjoy.
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mark_p86
Plucker


Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Posts: 5
Location: St. Helens, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply! Like you say, perhaps somebody who knows about the Strat copy side of things can shed some light on it. As I mentioned earlier it has a nice weight to it and the neck is exactly what I usually look for in Fender guitars in regards to the vintage radius and tinted gloss finish. It doesn't feel cheap or substandard, it would just be nice to know what I got for my shambled together partscaster! My only other experience with Tokai guitars is a Firebird copy I used to gig with a while back which I believe was Korean, and a friend of mine's brother has a Chinese made Love Rock that isn't exactly the best quality.
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jonah65
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
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Location: weymouth, uk

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

first impression, it could be a MIJ 1989 ast55.
changed middle and neck pickups, new selector switch, not sure about
the saddles either.
Just my two cents.
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mark_p86
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Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Posts: 5
Location: St. Helens, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that a good thing? I literally know next to nothing about these guitars, apologies for all the questions! In my 16 years of playing this is the 1st Tokai Strat to cross my path... Perhaps I should stop gigging under a rock! The guy I traded with mentioned the black bottom pickups a few times as if he thought they were a deal breaker. Thanks very much for your input, it's greatly appreciated.
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jonah65
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
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Location: weymouth, uk

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it is neither a good thing or a bad thing. The guitar is hardly a collectors
item, so i personnally don't think it is worth much, if that is what you are
asking.
If you are still gigging, would you use it because it's your new no. 1 go to
guitar, if not, it will just hang on your wall.
The black bottom pickups associated with tokai strats, were dimarzios and
only found in high end vintage (pre 1984) springys/goldstars. The wiring
on these were black and white i think, so i very much doubt they are the
same as the ones' on your guitar.
If it sounds great and you like it, just play it.
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Barks67
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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 271
Location: Leeds UK

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as saddles, it is entirely possible this is a replacement.
My 87 Goldie had saddles that had gone so rusty and corroded by 94, it would snap strings within a first gig, so I replaced it with a stock Gotoh bridge - very similar to this.
In fact the only things original to mine are the body, neck, plastic bits and switch. All the hardware wore out over time and was replaced.
Check for codes in the body and on the neck, which you'll have to remove.
I think it's legit with replaced hardware.

Edit: the point here is that mine is probably worthless to a collector but would be of significant value to a musician who would connect with it, as it is a great pro instrument in it's own right - now vastly superior to what it was when new.
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mark_p86
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Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Posts: 5
Location: St. Helens, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not really cash value I'm interested in, it's obvious that it isn't a hidden gem that's been locked away under somebody's bed, it's just general intrigue as to its age, origin and what parts may have been changed out really because I was nicely surprised at the quality of the neck and because the guy I traded with was happy to take a partscaster in exchange for it. The only "code" if you want to call it that which I could find was the marker pen scribble in the neck pickup route which is in one of the pics, otherwise the neck heel and pocket are blank.
I have my Fender Strat and Tele reissues which will always be my go-to guitars, so the Tokai may well end up as my next re-spray and modding platform when (sorry, if!) the weather warms up.
I ended up with a very nice SG, a not exactly fantastic Tokai and a bit of cash in my pocket for 2 guitars I hadn't touched in months. Seems like I may have gotten a good deal afterall!
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Diamond
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Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 1650
Location: ZA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some questions.

What makes you think it's as old as 1989?

Does it have vintage frets on it, are they worn?
Is it a 7.25" neck radius?
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brokentoes
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Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 1226
Location: Bronte by the Sea, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, this is slightly off topic but around what year did Tokai stop stamping their MIJ Goldstars/Breezy's with those codes that are like # - # in the body cavities and at the butt of their necks ?? Or did they ??
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jonah65
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Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 463
Location: weymouth, uk

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

probably me who thought possibly 1989, as i know there were other fender
replicas (breezysound) with no serial number stamped on neck plate in
or around 1989. information that i found trawling through some old threads on here, check this out from a thread found by typing '1989' into search, bottom of page 1, topic about a 'minty goldstar special'

jacco
Guitar God


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 2234
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:02 pm Post subject:
Yes in 1989/1990; 3 types:
1. with serial number Fujigen made
2. No serial Tokai made
3. No serial Cort (Korea) made
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