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Guitar Shows in General...

 
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Skybone
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Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 504
Location: South Yorkshire, UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:58 pm    Post subject: Guitar Shows in General... Reply with quote

Really annoy me, you expect to find some really good deals, but the dealers at the shows still expect you to pay high street prices.

I went to one recently, and there were a good selection of Tokai's for sale, only a few of which that were GAS worthy, and they were on the Tokai Distributer's stand. There were some nice Tokai T'birds, but for what the dealers were asking, I could have gone to my local music shop and got one cheaper!

Sorry, general rant alert (plus my typing has gone to pot as the cat is lying on my left hand!).

I had to haggle with one guy to get a reduced price on some strings, had I bought them online, I would have got a better deal.

It's really annoying, and kind of spoils the vibe of a show for me, I know the dealers are there to make some money, but at least they could reduce their prices to a touch below the high street prices.
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tokaiguy
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Joined: 09 Sep 2001
Posts: 643
Location: Dallas Tx

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skybone , I'm with you on this one! The prices and "Thee Additude" is what keeps me away! The "deals" are done the day before during the set-up. When the Guitar Shows started here in Dallas during the 80's it was great, but you could'nt drag me to one today! Here's how to get a deal today. If a local store that you use is going to show, offer them your services free of charge to set up and help out during the show. This way you are in when the dealers are dealing amongst themselves, thats when the deals go down. At the tear down is another great opportunity Stuff that didn't sell and that they don't want to lug home goe's cheap! During the show you have a "Backstage Pass" to walk and deal all day long! Just hang out at the load-in door and offer to help! It works everytime ! Good Luck! TG
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ned
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Joined: 29 Aug 2001
Posts: 1154
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention the Gibson love fest that is usually going on. What happened to vintage amps and fx?
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Skybone
Guitar God


Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 504
Location: South Yorkshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They got too expensive to take to shows, where some member of the unscrupulous public could actually afford the inflated prices that are being asked for them.

But what's wrong with Gibson....?
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tokaiguy
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Joined: 09 Sep 2001
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Location: Dallas Tx

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibson has gone out of their Minds!! The rediculous pricing of their "Replicas", the insane relationship/or lack of.. with the marketers of their product. The lawsuit against Paul Reed Smith and anyone who manufactures a single cutaway guitar. I bought my last Gibson in 1991 just as the crazyness was begining. I think President "Henry" has a lot to do with it! Management changes every 3 month's, it's hard to keep track!! For the whole story check out the December Vintage Guitar!!! TG
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Skybone
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Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 504
Location: South Yorkshire, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Methinks that Gibson have lost the plot.

I mean anyone can see that the PRS Singlecut only bears a passing resemblance to the LP, where guitars like the ESP EC & Viper series are more direct copies. IMO, Gibson have only sued PRS because their Singlecut has become the "must have" single cut mahogany/maple bodied guitar over the Les Paul. I have to admit, when going into a music shoppe, I check out the PRS's before the Gibson's, and if I had the cash (or the talent for that matter) I'd buy a PRS Singlecut over an LP. In the mean time, I'll stick with sturdy, VFM, quality MIJ instruments (no names because the Gibson Corp may be looking in!).

Thing is though, no matter how many "copies" or "replica's" are made of either Gibson or Fender products, there's still a massive line of people queueing up to buy one of the "fabled" guitars. The product's heritage & influence on the history of popular music keep the product alive in the hearts & minds of those that play (and wish to play) music.

Could you imagine what would have happened if Henry Ford sued every car manufacturer for nicking his ideas? Could you imagine if someone had sued Henry Ford?
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tokaiguy
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Joined: 09 Sep 2001
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Location: Dallas Tx

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You make a great point Skybone! Let me ask you, What is it about the PRS that atracks you? I have played a few of them and they are of a very high quality, but I find them like a Jackson Soloist whitout and individule character. I have played the McCarty , The Dragon and the Santana model. Pumping a rectified amp they are great, but thru a clean setting I did'nt find much to get excited about... A Gretsch, a Rick, Strat and LP are all unique I do'nt see it in a PRS...Hey I could be wrong , whats your opinion? TG
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tokaigeezer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 209
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just my two cents here ...

I went to my first guitar show, the Three Amigos one in Phoenix last year. I was flabbergasted at the worn-out guitars for sale: old battered Harmonys, Teiscos, Kays, Kliras ... dirty, moldy clapped-out crud that came out of a wet basement somewhere offered at the bargain price of $800 and up.

A few decent CBS-era Strats but those were overpriced as well. One dealer seemed to have some pretty nice used gear: Buffalo Bros., who carried lots of G&Ls. Music Machine, a high-profile Gibson dealer was there with "Stinger Les Pauls" - $3,000 and up up up. Very pretty tops but they looked almost too nice to play. Flawless but also mojo-less.

The show itself was a weird subculture of old fat guys with headsets, wearing ponytails and sandals, making cell phone calls to prospective buyers , cigar smoking powersuit guys, but dressed in Hawaiian shirts for the day, skinny sunburnt post-menopausal women clawing away frantically at battered Gretsches. It was as if I stumbled into vintage guitar hell, with no young people in sight, perhaps trying to find a playable instrument - just old crustaceans like myself. I had seen the future and it wasn't pretty!

But not a total loss for me. I wound up buying a beautiful handmade custom Strat-styled guitar built by Leo Skala, of Scala Guitars. One piece mahogany body with a leather top (the only one he ever made - treated so it actually looks like wood-it's as lustrous as an antique book) and the neck made of padauk, with a lovely padauk fingerboard. Great fretwork, vintage Duncan and Dimarzio pickups, Straplocks, custom-designed metal cast hardware, plus a 1/2 inch thick figured maple pickguard that is stunning. You should see the flame tops this guy builds for his Strat/Paul hybrids. He sold it to me for cost at $1,050 with a new hardshell case, and a spec sheet made of a microthin wood veneer that listed all the features. He was really happy to make the sale and I was happier still to get this great, unique ax, which is a great playing guitar of heirloom quality, at the cost of a new Fender American Deluxe Strat.

So on the one hand, you have a few artisans out there making exquisite instruments, just trying to make a living, and then you have Gibson trying to make sure the only singlecut in the market is one of their overpriced Les Pauls. While I like vintage gear because it is already broken in, the stuff these shows are hyping is mostly worn out guitars, because they either don't take the good instruments out on the road or because they think that some people will buy anything as long as it is old.

Thank God for Tokai Strat replicas and Love Rocks, which are 20-plus years old, with good quality and high mojo factor.

I love my '78 Les Paul Pro Deluxe, but I could afford it because the model isn't terribly collectable and it was a factory second. But I suspect it plays as well as any P-90 LP they make today. And it does have mojo, although it weighs a ton (almost 11 pounds) but the sustain is there alright!
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Skybone
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Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 504
Location: South Yorkshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, there's too many TG's around! I get confused easily!

TokaiGUY, for me, the high end PRS's are more pretty object d'art than working guitars. Imagine taking 3,000+ (pick a currency $/?/?/etc) worth of Brazilian Rosewood & Honduras Mahogany to a gig at your local club. Would you go to the bar without it manacled to your wrist? Neither would I. I appreciate the craftsmanship of them, but I couldn't justify the expense. When I say that I check out the PRS's first, then the Gibson's, it's like when you're a kid and you find ?10. You immediately want to go to the sweetshop & blow the lot! It's eye candy, something to be desired. The Page 3 of the guitar world (topless models in the daily paper "The Sun" in the UK).

For me, modern Gibson's lack the "mojo factor", my old Studio ('96) was good, but lacked serious mojo. Newer post 2002 LP's have more mojo than pre 2002, but the PRS Singlecut's seem, to me, to have more mojo than 02 LP's. The only guitar's for me that have it are my '99 LS70F, my '79 Ibanez 2619, even my '78 Ibanez IC200 has more than my old Studio. I've got a PRS SE Soapbar (singlecut), and I was well impressed with it's build, set up, and how it played, but I don't use it very often. I'll always pick up the Tokai or one of the (old) Ibanez before the Soapbar.

In answer to your question, basically, a PRS is more "bling" than a Gibson.


TokaiGEEZER: My point exactly!

It's good that you found a bargain, and more importantly, a bargain that has mojo, is something special, and will be used. The vintage market seems to be getting silly again, where artisan's / luthiers are being overlooked by people buying old guitars, because they're old and not because they're hugely individual working instruments, and old instruments are being snapped up because they're old.
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whitehall
Guitar God


Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Annapolis

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got back from the Philly show, not much has changed:
- most of the deals are done at the load-in friday night.
-The Japanese dealers are still all over the place buying any Gibson/Fender they can get their hands on cheap.
- The prices on sat are moslty in hopes of snaring someone off the street who is not real aware of pricing.
- If you walk around with a case you'll be asked by all the dealers what's in it.
- No one really gives a crap about Tokai. But then , that's not what these things are about.
- This is first used show I've been to in awhile . I was helping out a friend in his booth. I was surprised at the number of people who brought items they were trying to sell to the dealers.
- I thought the Japanese mania for American guitars had subsided, boy was I wrong. And this wasn't really a major show like Arlington. Ishabishi even had a booth there buying guitars.
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