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Tokai ST100 Custom
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greco_burst
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Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 558
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the truss rod adjuster the hex allen type or slotted screw type? looks to be hex type, which indicates pre 1982 to me.

Seems the changover is either 1980 or 1981 to cross slotted screw type?

A 1981 model maybe right?
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bluesyrat
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 395
Location: Latina, Italy

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I always thought the stamped fingerboards were from '79?

As far as I've been aware it's a 1981 ST100...at least that's what Mark/villager sold it as...actually he thought it might be the fabled ST120....but pfft...what does that guy know about Tokais!


I think is established that vintage serials beginning with 0 are 1980. My st100 (bought from villager) is 0000126 and it has "100" mark. I believe that sticker substitution is for very late '80 models (or after, not sure about)... so your 0000003 is a little mistery and Peter Mac is right...
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andyscott
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Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bump!

I'd pretty much forgotten about selling this beauty and it's been languishing in the temperature controlled room I had especially built for my fine axes.

Or cupboard, as it's more often known as.

Anyway, it has to go now. If anyone's up for it let me know here or in a few days/maybe a week it'll be parked on eBay.

Andy.
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Peter Mac
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
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Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,

UPDATE: Having just acquired 3 x 1980 ST-80's (S/N 0009568, 0009925, 0013426) GS, GS and BB, and pulling them apart initially some solid evidence has come to light. Neck/Body stamps are 10=1, 10=11, 12=2.
1980 was certainly a huge feature changeover for ST and LS models.
Reborn Old had empressed number but Love Rock had sticker and this change over was around S/N 0009500 also.
After checking their features I have come to these conclusions -

1) Empressing of fingerboards stopped before 0009500.
2) Allen key Truss stopped around 0010000.
3) skunk/rosewood board stopped very early 1980.
4) Both neck and body code have 'A' stamp for ST-80 and higher. So does scratchplate up to S/n 0010000.
5) All 1980 guitars had type 2 neck plate. Type 3 (MIJ Fender) began 1981.

This can now be added to the collective.
Peter Mac

PS: Another Forum member now owns 0009568....and..loving it.
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 2871
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter Mac wrote:
Hi guys,

UPDATE: Having just acquired 3 x 1980 ST-80's (S/N 0009568, 0009925, 0013426) GS, GS and BB, and pulling them apart initially some solid evidence has come to light. Neck/Body stamps are 10=1, 10=11, 12=2.
1980 was certainly a huge feature changeover for ST and LS models.
Reborn Old had empressed number but Love Rock had sticker and this change over was around S/N 0009500 also.
After checking their features I have come to these conclusions -

1) Empressing of fingerboards stopped before 0009500.
2) Allen key Truss stopped around 0010000.
3) skunk/rosewood board stopped very early 1980.
4) Both neck and body code have 'A' stamp for ST-80 and higher. So does scratchplate up to S/n 0010000.
5) All 1980 guitars had type 2 neck plate. Type 3 (MIJ Fender) began 1981.

This can now be added to the collective.
Peter Mac

PS: Another Forum member now owns 0009568....and..loving it.



Hi Peter,


Regarding fretboard stamped serial numbers;
The change from stamping to stickering did not occur at the same time for Tokai Fender and Tokai Gibson models. At least not if you only look at serial numbers.
The first stickered ST I have found is 0008454, which is an ST-80:


The first stickered LS I have found is 0009533, which is a LS-60 Reborn Old.



So there's a 1000 guitars between those 2 models, of which several Tokai Fender models with stickers and Tokai Fender models with fretboard stamps. A mix.

Also you can see that the change from fretboard stamp to sticker on LS models was still during the Reborn Old period, not with the change to Love Rock as you suggested.
All these findings were already known, as seen in my Tokai production number thread and most likely I was not the first to notice this

But there is more.
What about a LS-120 Reborn with SN 0008635, while Reborn Old range starts at 0007474 and goes up to at least 0009575?
Or a TE-55N with SN 0010417 with a fretboard stamp?
I found numerous examples of a rosewood board Springys with skunk stripe with SN higher than 0010000, one of them my own ST-55N with SN 0012595. This occurred at the same time with non skunk stripe Springys (most of them higher end models). Again a mix. So your observation that this combo is early 1980 will not hold.
As there is a mix of use of original double ring tuners and single ring tuners on LS in the 0009000s.
And last but very important:
There is no LS after SN 0011696 but the 1980 production range goes to 0016685, so 5000 Tokai Fender models 'produced' after that last LS and no LS?
A similar thing is going on 1979 last LS has serial number 9006403 but the production range goes up to 9009945. The last LSs during 1979 have november and december codes.
There are a few examples op 1979 LSs with 'LS100' stamp in neck pickup cavity and '80' fretboard stamp.

So what could this all mean?
To me:
1. Production stamps like 10=2 etc are the only real indication of production date of the actual guitar.
It would be interesting to see pics of these stamps on late 1979 and late 1980 model. Do you have these Peter?
2. The sequence during production is first production stamp, then serial number, then model type.
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Peter Mac
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1060
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jacco,
Lot to take in there, mate.
In the 3x 1980 models, all body codes were in the front pickup cavity.
In the case of the TE-55N, do the neck/body codes match?

I'll run your info along with mine and come back to you.
I have noticed lately that a lot of old Tokai coming out of Japan are modified in one way or another and body/neck matches are not always matching. Things like pickups, bridges are not left alone so I would exercise caution in this area.
I agree with you about the LS series with sticker application but keep in mind that we are yet to find a Love Rock with impressed fingerboard whilst the overwhelming majority of Reborn Olds have them. However there are always those few exceptions . . like 0009533.

Peter
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andyscott
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Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On eBay now, 7 day BIN auction.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=191057565653
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Peter Mac
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1060
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I am having a few issues with the number of Tokai Fendah-style guitars coming out of Japan with mismatched features.
As an international buyer, it is not as though you can take it back, or have questions answered or even understand the seller - most plead ignorant anyway. Japanese sellers generally DO NOT like to sell to gaijin (foreigners).
So due to the Japanese love of individuality, I am not surprised that most have swapped necks and electronics and they still ask collector prices for them. Some are just down-right devious.
I recently got a maple neck with '80' impressed on the fingerboard and an allen key truss rod. By the time it arrived 3 weeks later, the most notable feature was the 'U' neck - not 'V'. Stamped base was 5=2, but no 'A' as an 80 should have. Upon magnified inspection it was revealed the number had been engraved over it's original number of 50 to turn it into an 80 to achieve a higher price. It worked.
Jacco, my thing with Fendah replicas is that they can be taken apart and swapped - even neck plates, so what may appear as an anomaly is really a partsocaster. I am becoming more and more sceptical about the guitars becoming available.
Oh yeah, St-45 had ceramic pickups, not 'U' pickups but I have seen both 45's and 50's with swapped pickups.
Peter
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