finally a Tokai Springy Sound, but is it legit/original?

Alright after months of searching i've found a vintage springy sound. I tried identifying it myself but i run into some weird trouble. First the pics:

















Alright i'm having the following concerns:

1. the pickup covers do not seem aged like the knobs...almost everywhere i look i see them aged. Are they not original?

2. the headstock decals indicate its a pre lawsuit guitar. checking the serial number it has 5 digits, and when i check this page: http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-fender.html this is an indication that it's a ST50 or a ST60. and the first digit is a 1, indicating it's from 1981. HOWEVER when checking the 1981 catalog (http://brochures.yokochou.com/guitar-and-amp/tokai/1981/en_02.html) the shown 2 tone sunburst with maple is actually a ST80 and no ST50/60 with sunburst is shown, so i'm quite confused.

3. Sadly i'm in no position to take the guitar apart so a cannot investigate further, i can get it for around 600 euro's (794,51 us dollars), so i'm wondering if this would be a good price

Thanks a lot for your help!

somebody? sorry to push but i kinda have to act quick

1. It's not unusual for the Tokai pickup covers to be lighter than the tone and volume knobs. Some that match have either had covers replaced or been artificially darkened.

2. Looks like an ST50 to me. The serial number is based on the original Fender sequence indicating that it is a 1957 replica.

3. 600 Euro is a very good price providing that all is genuine Tokai with original pickups and bridge saddles without extra routing under the pickguard. Hard to tell for sure without opening up and the pics are not detailed enough.

mirrorboy said:

1. It's not unusual for the Tokai pickup covers to be lighter than the tone and volume knobs. Some that match have either had covers replaced or been artificially darkened.

2. Looks like an ST50 to me. The serial number is based on the original Fender sequence indicating that it is a 1957 replica.

3. 600 Euro is a very good price providing that all is genuine Tokai with original pickups and bridge saddles without extra routing under the pickguard. Hard to tell for sure without opening up and the pics are not detailed enough.

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Thanks for the answer. Okay i've got some more info!

1. for a while he had different non humming pickups installed but replaced them with the original after he got a TFT monitor. When he did that he also cleaned the pickup covers.

2. no extra routing and is fully original! he bought it in the early 80s when he worked in a music store.

i'm testing it tomorrow...very excited! Any tips for me to look for?

I've only got one tip. If you're happy with it, after you've examined it, slacken all the strings and sight the neck from the headstock to make sure there is no back bow.

yeah i'll give it a decent setup job asap!

i hope the frets are okay though!

Congratulations, that's a really good score!

mirrorboy said:

Congratulations, that's a really good score!

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Thanks, i'm having it serviced right now. The former owner didn't play it at all anymore and there were 0.11 strings on it.

Really curious how it will sound and play when it's setup decently!

Interesting to see the 10=5 stamp on an ST-50.

Cali Girl said:

Interesting to see the 10=5 stamp on an ST-50.

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what do those stamps normally mean?

yeah what do you mean by that Cali? Have we worked out what they stand for. I thought the best guess was month = day or day =month (I've seen a 24 = 7, i'm sure)

10 x 5 = 50 on an ST-50

I have seen a few 7=10 on 70 spec guitars in the pickup cavity. I think in some cases it can indicate the model.

:roll:
my st50 has the following stamps:

Neck: 4=11
Body (neck pick up cavity): 4=12
Control cavity: 4=1 GS

we assume the GS for Golden Sunburst. Is it possible that the stamp in the control cavity indicates the routing date (the first of april), that in pick up route for the finishing date (12 of april) and 11 of april for the neck finishing?
It's difficult to say that could stand for day=month (january for routing, november for neck, december for finishing ALWAYS the fourth )

Cali, re your ST 50 & ST70 I think it is probably coincidence those guitars were produced May 5 and July 10.

For me Peter Mac's dating theory is the most logical.
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15999&highlight=codes and
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9982&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=codes&start=15

]My number theory is based on MM = DD (month = day) due to the fact that i have never seen the 1st number higher than 12 and the 2nd number I have seen up to 28.

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The important thing is not just the serial# but also the stamps to determine when the guitar was made. I have catalogued over 1200 Tokai codes and in all these the first number has never exceeded 12 - so i would say it is a Month.The second number has never exceeded 27 so this could be Day

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Since Peter's post I purchased a Goldstar which has the second number as 30. Cavity code 6.30 OR Z. I assume June 30, will post picture later.

My guess on the X and Z markings would be the 'production line' number. Surely one of the guys who used to stamp them can tell us why? anyone got access to ex employees?

The only reference to the X and Z markings was a post some years ago by Peter Mac. He wrote to say that the Z simply described an export model.

6.30 OR Z LEFTY TST60 L26779 OR=Old Red (Dakota Red).

Iain and Tom rather than me hijacking this thread further, I've started a new thread so we can discuss Codes again.

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lifeline said:

Cali, re your ST 50 & ST70 I think it is probably coincidence those guitars were produced May 5 and July 10.

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Could be! I really have no idea. I'm just as curious as the rest of us.