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Questions about "vintage" Burny's.
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james
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Joined: 29 Jan 2002
Posts: 294
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Burny single cut Les Paul Special (TV finish) and a cherry SG. Both great guitars, no serial numbers. I've seen a few SGs cropping up over the last few years but never another LP Special. Anyone else out there seen or got one?
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ToneTimes2
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Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 37
Location: Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen a Burny special and junior, both in single cut and double cut variations. On their headstocks it usually says "RocknRoll" or something to that effect. They look great but here in the states I can get a Gibson for the same price as the Burnys fetch.
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gaijin
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Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

older Burny VH-1 PU is an exact clone/copy of the Gibson '59 PAF from a '59 standard... Newer VH-1 is very similar to their older ones with different coil design.. so therefore, the tone is not quite as warm or fat...

Greco DRY PU are exact clone of the PU of 57/58 gibson LP standard series... and their new DRY II is an overwound version of their orginal DRY ..

The above 2 PU are among the very best PU that comes out of Japan...
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ToneTimes2
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Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 37
Location: Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally started having trouble with feedback with my VH1s in high gain, high volume situations. I love the pickups so much I was hesitatnt to pull them, but I decided to get some Burstbucker Pros. Since then though I think I'm just going to wax pot my VH1s. I just love them too much.
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theskywolf
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 149
Location: germany

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, that's interesting. I bought a Burny Les Paul not long ago. The seller said it was a 1976 model. It has "Les Paul Model" on the headstock (thicker lines than Gibson) and a bell-shaped truss-rod cover with "Fernandes" on it.

It has a 2-piece body and top, two piece neck with 18 degree headstock and nothing marked on the PUs

Anybody knowing such a model? Is that a real Burny model or some kind of clone thing?

Cheers Skywolf
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Jim Jones
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 347
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Skywolf,

I have an old Burny -- I was told it was a '78, and it sounds a lot like yours. It has the steep headstock angle, it has the "thick" Les Paul model" on the headstock as well as the Gibson shaped truss rod cover. Mine doesn't have Fernandes on it though - but I've seen them on eBay.
The pickups sound great and are supposed to be the original VH-1's but there's no markings on them.

How big is the neck on yours?

Take care!

Jim


Last edited by Jim Jones on Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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theskywolf
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 149
Location: germany

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jim,

when you have one that's seems to be similar, they may well be "real" Burnys! Mine has a 60s neck, quite flat. A rich acoustic sound. I only played it briefly amplified, so I can't say much about the PUs yet. I think I will have to have them waxed as there's a lot of feedback (and I'm not playing high gain).

My guitar has a cool vintage sunburst, and the 2-piece body is a big piece (about 2/3) and a smaller one (about 1/3), the top is center joined. It has 70's style pot knobs. There is a stamped serial no (!). The pegs have been changed, I will put on Kluson reissues there.

I have some pics, maybe I can post them (I did that some time ago, I hope I remember). If you drop me a pm I can mail them to you.

Wolf
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luis
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Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 2305
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fernandes(Burny) is building replicas since 1.972 so it makes sense.Any pic would help.
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theskywolf
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 149
Location: germany

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here are the pics:








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ToneTimes2
Sus4add11


Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 37
Location: Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice guitar you have there. That one I believe was made in the Tokai Gakki factory, so you basically have a Tokai there.
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ian
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 834
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, continuing with this link from my other thread re Hiro's current offering http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7338060587&indexURL=2#ebayphotohosting .

What appears to have happened (my guess) is that Burny/Fernandes were making their own Les Paul guitars quite happily until about 1979-80, ie nothing particularly to do with Tokai (except that most if not all Japanese makers were sharing/renting space in same factory premises, ie many makers under one roof, possibly swapping parts & using same machinery & designs etc.). But then about 79-80 Burny lost their own manufacturing capacity & either shared part of Tokais facilities or got Tokai to make the guitars for them ? for a while that resulted in very similar looking guitars bearing both names (Tokai & Burny/Fernandes) ? so you got some Tokais with Burny type features such as inked SN & holes in neck pup cavity (ie with Tokai on headstock), and conversely you also got some Burny/Fernandes guitars with Tokai features such as circuit board. These guitars mostly seem to date 1979-81, but so far I think the only logical conclusion is to accept the name on the headstock, ie if it has genuine Tokai logo then it?s Tokai, & if it says Burny or Fernandes then it?s Burny (albeit perhaps using & interchanging same/similar parts & construction on both guitars).

The original debate was about inked numbers, & I note that skywoolf?s guitar has impressed number (ie not inked). But skywoolf also has clear Fernandes/Burny on headstock, so I see no reason to regard that as a Tokai. One interesting thing though ? as we know, from 1978-80 Tokai impressed model number into end of Fretboard ? however, would be interesting to find a Burny from that period with same impressed model No. in fretboard,? but so far I?ve never seen or heard of that.

All just 2:cents of course .
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theskywolf
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 149
Location: germany

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thoughts, Ned. I read the other thread, too. We're all educated guessers

I agree totally that my Burny is not likely to be linked to Tokai (that's why I posted it here). There are many differences to my LS-60 from 1980 (steeper headstock angle, no circuit board, different PUs, thin neck).

Luis, perhaps you can give more details about your Burny to compare?

Why is it so difficult to find out what went on in that time? A big secret!

Thanks to you all, it's fun as usual
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ian
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 834
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote ?why so difficult to find out?? ? well it would be easy if Tokai would tell us, but apparently they wont! Afaik, many people have emailed them with questions in past, but little or no reply (I?m not Ned by the way, at least not as far as I know ? interested to see James chipping in here though, because like Luis he was involved with Tokai & this Forum right from the start ? nice to keep the original guys? James are you still watching mate?) .

Skywoolf ? on your guitar the impressed S/N makes me think it's just prior to the Burny's made at Tokai factory,... but in any case it?s a very nice early MIJ Les Paul ? wouldn?t be surprised if it was v.similar quality to those early Tokais ... but tell me what S/N is that on the headstock, it's a little tricky to make out the first 2 digits?

Ian.
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Jim Jones
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 347
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Skywolf,

I think your guitar and mine are very similar. Mine has a rather slim neck and the impressed serial number as well. I'll try to upload some pictures for you tonight!

Jim
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tokaigeezer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 209
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My stray thoughts on "why it is so difficult."

While there may have been no actual lawsuits, there were probably some threats to do so by Gibson and Fender. Gibson is certainly rattling its sabres these days. Tokai may be tightlipped about the history of their LP and Strat replicas because if they released details of their attempts to "nail" (and in fact surpass) the originals, it could be seen as a tacit admission of their copy intentions from the get-go. It would serve them no purpose (though it sure would help the forum) and in fact damage them legally. I think the best future information will come from people who carefully piece together the long and confusing saga, probably without the blessings of Tokai Gakki. But then again, this is a really good mystery, and that's fascinating in itself!
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