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Tokai Les Paul Bass

 
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dougwaite
Plucker


Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Winnipeg Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:25 pm    Post subject: Tokai Les Paul Bass Reply with quote

I bought a Tokai Les Paul Bass new about 7 years ago and am trying to find out any info about it particularily the model number. It is similiar to the LSB45 in the catalogue sxcept it has a set neck (not bolt-on) and trapazoidal inlays as opposed to the dots. On the back of the headstock it has 'Manufactored under license of the Tokai Gakki Co LTD, Made in Korea'. I would like to post it in the registery but there is no option for this model. Any Info ( woods, etc.) would be appreciated.
The Serial # starts with 04 which would mean it was made in 2004 which is when I bought it.
Thanks
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Johny642000
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Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 193
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello there - are you by any chance in Canada?

Please do a search on this forum on Fakai's and you will learn a great deal about this issue - particualrly about guitars with 'Made under License...' on the back of the headstock.

When you do your research you will learn that a) your bass is not a genuine Tokai and b) that the quality is nonetheless very good and you still own a very well made and specced instrument...

All the best,

John.
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Johny642000
2007 LS145S
2006 LC180S
LS75Q, ES130, Breezysound, Hardpuncher
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dougwaite
Plucker


Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Winnipeg Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'M stunned!!! Yes I am from Canada (Winnipeg, MB)This guitar was bought new at a very reputable dealer with a salesman who is a Tokai fan and knowledgable about the subject. There were several Tokais there including a Jazz sound as well as several Love Rocks models and although I didn't look at them all, I believe several of them had the same words on the back.The salesman is also a friend of mine and not a scammer so I don't believe he saw me coming.
I will research more and if what you say is true I am disappointed although this is a great instrument. I have many basses including a German Warwick Corvette, a Kubicki Ex-Factor, an American Jazz Bass Deluxe 5-string, an American Standard Precisin bass, two spectors, etc.
I also have a Tokai Tele copy also MIK however this one does not say "Mfg under license..."
Despite my reaction, I thank you for your reply. It would explain why I can't find it in the catalogues.
Thanks again

Doug
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stratmoto
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Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 439
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of Made in Korea, it will say "Make in Korea" on the decal.

If you search Make in Korea, you will get all the answers you seek.
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Johny642000
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Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 193
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you read up on this then you'll learn all about the facts that it was the distributor in Canada who was responsible so I'm sure the guy in the guitar shop sold it to you in good faith...

As many people have asserted, these are not cheap knock-offs but well-made instruments so I hope you still enjoy playing and owning it...

You never know, these Canadian Fakais might one-day become collectors items...

best wishes,

John.
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Johny642000
2007 LS145S
2006 LC180S
LS75Q, ES130, Breezysound, Hardpuncher
1980 Silver Star SS48
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dougwaite
Plucker


Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Winnipeg Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks John.
Yes, as members of this forum have pointed out it seems I do have one of the infamous ?FAKAIs? right down to the ?Make in Korea? gaff (Don?t know how I missed that one?I?ve looked at the back a thousand times.) I have since read the story of the unscrupulous Canadian distributer and what I find fascinating is this?
Why the hell would anyone want to counterfeit guitars that are copies to begin with?! With no disrespect to the members of this forum TOKAI is a company that specializes in copying name brand instruments. Yes they are very GOOD copies, in some cases as good or better than the originals, but copies they are. If you?re going to go to the trouble of building a perfectly specced, well- built copy of a TOKAI (which is in itself a perfectly specced, well -built copy of a Gibson)why not just slap a Gibson decal on it and triple your money? The fact that this forum exists proves that there are a lot of people who love and appreciate TOKAI guitars (myself included) but I have seen the Chinese ?Gibson? Fakes and they?re TERRIBLE. A blind man could spot one with a cane!
I`m not sure where I`m going with all of this except to say this. I didn`t buy this bass because I ``always dreamed of owning a Tokai``. I bought the bass because it looks, plays and sounds GREAT-much better than the same model Epiphone hanging on the wall beside it. I would put it up against any genuine MIK or MIJ TOKAI. The fact that it was not actually built in a Tokai factory makes little difference to me.
That being said if I ever sell it I will NEVER pass it off for something it is not. As John states above, Maybe in 20 years people will be looking for these FAKAIS for the same reason they search for the `80s MIJs---because they are beautiful, rare and well made guitars.
I`m getting off my soapbox now?.Peace to all!!!
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bluejeannot
Guitar God


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 1613
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johny642000 wrote:
If you read up on this then you'll learn all about the facts that it was the distributor in Canada who was responsible so I'm sure the guy in the guitar shop sold it to you in good faith...

As many people have asserted, these are not cheap knock-offs but well-made instruments so I hope you still enjoy playing and owning it...

You never know, these Canadian Fakais might one-day become collectors items..
best wishes,

John.
One day they might be collecters items?Collected by who? Trolls perhaps! Gabe
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dougwaite
Plucker


Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Winnipeg Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The same kind of trolls who go to the ends of the earth to find a Japanese copy of a name brand guitar and will argue back and forth in forums about whether the blue or black wiring on the pick-ups is original!!!!
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singemonkey
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Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 222
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FFS. There's a difference between a fake and a copy that proudly displays its maker's mark.

Why fake Tokais? Because the enjoy a deserved reputation as exceptional instruments that a no name Korean brand will not. Therefore you can sell your no-name brand Korean guitar for more because people associate Tokai quality with it. It's pretty simple.

Tokai does not make fakes. Perhaps the illiterate might buy them thinking they're another brand, but even they can recognise the shape of the Tokai logo.

That's what fake means. It means the buyer's not getting what he/she thinks they're getting. They've been deceived. Tokai does not deceive anyone.

Enjoy your guitar. I'm sure it's great. In this particular case little harm is being done, since the difference between MIC Tokais and MIK Fakais is apparently not dramatic enough to be too upset. It's still wrong though.
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dougwaite
Plucker


Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Winnipeg Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I stated before, I would never try to pass this off as something it isn't on an unsuspecting buyer. My point is simply this....
In the same way that 1980's TOKAI guitars were considered as good as or better than the Fenders they were copying - this is a nice bass, possibly better than the MIK LSB45 with a bolt on(!) neck.
Let's not forget that TOKAI themselves got into trouble for ripping off Fender and Gibson TOO closely infringing on copyrights for those time honored companies....not exactly honorable behavior.
Perhaps there is a little poetic justice here.
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bluejeannot
Guitar God


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 1613
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dougwaite wrote:
The same kind of trolls who go to the ends of the earth to find a Japanese copy of a name brand guitar and will argue back and forth in forums about whether the blue or black wiring on the pick-ups is original!!!!
If you were a little less of a gullible idiot and an arrogant prick and paid a little more attention to the details like whether it said "Make in Korea" rather than "Made in Korea" on the back of your piece of crap guitar You would`nt be wasting everybodies time here asking about your fake Tokai. Gabe.
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dougwaite
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Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Winnipeg Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's uncalled for. Who's being the arrogant prick Gabe?!?
Throughout this whole correspondence you have made ME feel like I'm some kind of criminal for having bought this guitar.
I didn't make fake Tokais I simply bought one I thought was genuine and later found out it wasn't. What am I supposed to do SAND OFF THE LOGO with SANDPAPER?!?What exactly is my crime that I deserve to be ^&*( on by you?
If anyone has been arrogant and snobby and rude it's YOU.
You give these forums a bad name. Who's moderating this anyway.
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jacco
Guitar God


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 2871
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dougwaite wrote:
You give these forums a bad name. Who's moderating this anyway.


No one, but you can't know this, you just got here.
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singemonkey
Guitar God


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 222
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also reckon that's way over the line. But this is what inspired it:

You come to the Tokai forum for advice. It's given, and then you start suggesting that Tokai were dishonourable fakers (and not worth the money, but that's another story). And, by implication, that our ownership is in some way quasi-legal and dishonourable. That's where the reaction is coming from.

Bear in mind that copyright laws are *not* universal. There are a lot of people who feel that the way they work in Japan is a lot better than the way they work in most "Western" countries - in which the claims to stimulate innovation have precious little evidence behind them (and Japan is known as a country with a ferocious history of innovation).

Tokai did not try to pass off their products as anybody else's.
They did not violate the laws of their country.
They made products that the original manufacturers - at the time - chose not to continue with ('50s and '60s style, high quality Gibsons and Fenders) and were unavailable, despite massive global demand.

Only after Gibson and Fender realised that Asian companies were meeting this demand, did they choose to replicate their original designs rather than continue to use their monopoly on those products to force people to buy more cheaply made versions of their own originals. That was the effect that Western copyright was having. Lower cost versions of those instruments, ignoring customer demand.

So you'll find few here who agree that Tokai was dishonourable, and a great many, like the response above, who are actively angered by the suggestion.

One final note. Tokai got their "comeuppance" for copying Fenders. That would be when Fender contracted them to make most of their Japanese line during the nineties. That was their "payback" for their "dishonourable" ways.
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dougwaite
Plucker


Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Winnipeg Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey I AGREE with everything you said.
I like and respect the TOKAI company.
Obviously most people belong to this forum for that same reason.
I owned (briefly) a Hardpuncher back in the mid-80's that I wish I never sold. I also own a genuine MIK Tele.
I went on the Forum to find any info I could about the LP bass.
Most of the people who responded were courteous and informative.
One person chose to be insulting and derogatory right from the start and I got my back up.
The only points I wish to make are this...
- The FAKAI LP bass I own is a great instrument. Whoever did make it did a damn good job.
- I accept that it IS a fake and would NEVER pass it off as genuine.

'nuff said.
LONG LIVE TOKAI
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