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jacco
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean the EGFs which don't have dowels?

Few examples of the ones I own/have owned:

1980 EGF1800


1980 EGF1800


Or an 1981 EGC1000:


Some are not as tight as I wanted them to be. But then again; I don't know what's under the board.

Personally I think it's better to look at these guitars with an open mind. You're so eager to find flaws that all the conclusions you distract from observations you make are negative.
Another conclusion from using dowels could be that it's an extra reinforcement for the joint. A try to improve an old method. You know that in those days they tried to painstakingly copy the originals. They could have done without the dowels but chose not to.
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacco wrote:
You mean the EGFs which don't have dowels?

Few examples of the ones I own/have owned:


Some are not as tight as I wanted them to be. But then again; I don't know what's under the board.

Personally I think it's better to look at these guitars with an open mind. You're so eager to find flaws that all the conclusions you distract from observations you make are negative.
Another conclusion from using dowels could be that it's an extra reinforcement for the joint. A try to improve an old method. You know that in those days they tried to painstakingly copy the originals. They could have done without the dowels but chose not to.



To find a 2mm gap on the one side and a 1mm gap on the other side of the neck cannot result in any positive conclusion.

That 1800 and the 1000 have miserable neck joints in my opinion.
For guitars at that price one would expect a bit more craftmanship.

The more I use my "critical glasses" the more horrified I get.
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is Burny LG75GR
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jacco
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's the same one as earlier. What's wrong with it?
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacco wrote:
Yes, that's the same one as earlier. What's wrong with it?


Which do you refer to?
The Burny is another one of same model.
you can see that it isnt the same since this one has no glue in that little cavity on the right side of the neck.
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jacco
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yeah, so what's wrong with it?
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacco wrote:
Ah yeah, so what's wrong with it?


Horrible gaps on each side of the neck.
I always thougt these had a lot of "string" in the sound.
Now I understand why.
Too bad I was too naive and believed in the hype before otherwise I would have had hundreds and hundreds of pics of terrible craftmanship.
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japanstrat
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think they do have to leave a bit of room to adjust the neck angle a bit, like putting on a Strat neck and getting it right before tightening the bolts.

I think I've seen Gibson ones that are not too pretty either.

Tenons are all BS to me, as long as the neck doesn't fall off and the neck contacts the body in some sort of way.

I've got Strats with large shims in them because I installed a Floyd and the neck is making a fair bit less contact with the body then before and they still sound ok to me.
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jacco
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koubayashi wrote:
Horrible gaps on each side of the neck.


Ok, can you describe the minimum requirements needed before you call a tenon joint 'good'? Please be specific.

Koubayashi wrote:
I always thougt these had a lot of "string" in the sound.


These what?

Koubayashi wrote:
Too bad I was too naive and believed in the hype before otherwise I would have had hundreds and hundreds of pics of terrible craftmanship.


Which hype?

It's not hard to come by pics of Burny's, I have around 900. You can show more of those. Search and you will find.
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a 1993 Fujigen made Orville by Gibson 59ri.
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JVsearch
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admittedly some of those pics don't look real good, but it would probably be good to get the opinion of a luthier to add to the discussion.

Surely there has to be a bit of a gap - for the glue? If the pieces fitted really tightly then the builder wouldn't be able to get a decent layer of glue in there.
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jacco
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why I'm interested in what kind of tenon Fredrik thinks is good. He obviously isn't a luthier, so comparing his observations with that of a luthier would put things into perspective.
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually a mate of mine who is a luthier didn't like what he saw.
He thought it was a budget work.
And of course, these are mass produced guitars.

I have now mailed the pics to another luthier for a second opinion.
I mailed this guy: http://www.unicornbass.se/sve/unicornbass.html
He builds basses but the idea is the same.


Last edited by Koubayashi on Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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jacco
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still don't have your definition of a good tenon though.
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Koubayashi
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jacco wrote:
Still don't have your definition of a good tenon though.


Wood against wood!
A 2mm layer of glue between two wood pieces surely must affect the tone.
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