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Koubayashi

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Or not.

Too many of the Japanese Lesters passing through my hands look like this:
P1080761.jpg


Note the 2mm gap between the neck and the body on the left side and the large cavity on the right side.
 
But it's got a long tenon - it MUST be an amazing guitar!! :(

Sort of a bad day all the way around on this one. Any of several folks should have pulled the plug before it got out the door.
 
Mick51 said:
But it's got a long tenon - it MUST be an amazing guitar!! :(

Sort of a bad day all the way around on this one. Any of several folks should have pulled the plug before it got out the door.

A bad day?

Seems to have happen more often.
I have had the "opportunity" to remove the fretboard on two and both had extremely mediocre craftmanship in the neck pocket.
P1050552.jpg


P1070351.jpg
 
Koubayashi said:
Mick51 said:
But it's got a long tenon - it MUST be an amazing guitar!! :(

Sort of a bad day all the way around on this one. Any of several folks should have pulled the plug before it got out the door.

A bad day?

Seems to have happen more often...

That is the question!
We can't really say at this point that what you've discovered indicates a continual failure of QC or a policy of "close enough will do".

There could be some other explanations - maybe a junior person was doing their first neck set and were allowed to keep the guitar, then later it was sold.
Or it was one of a few bad ones that were marked for destruction, but staff took them or were allowed to buy them.

Any marks indicating "second" or something like that?
(I know Gibson has had this happen in the past - seconds did get out with staff and later got sold).

Yeah ok, I'm grasping at straws here, it doesn't look good.
 
JVsearch said:
Koubayashi said:
Mick51 said:
But it's got a long tenon - it MUST be an amazing guitar!! :(

Sort of a bad day all the way around on this one. Any of several folks should have pulled the plug before it got out the door.

A bad day?

Seems to have happen more often...

That is the question!
We can't really say at this point that what you've discovered indicates a continual failure of QC or a policy of "close enough will do".

There could be some other explanations - maybe a junior person was doing their first neck set and were allowed to keep the guitar, then later it was sold.
Or it was one of a few bad ones that were marked for destruction, but staff took them or were allowed to buy them.

Any marks indicating "second" or something like that?
(I know Gibson has had this happen in the past - seconds did get out with staff and later got sold).

Yeah ok, I'm grasping at straws here, it doesn't look good.

Well, perhaps an apprentice made a guitar every once in a while and the regular workers made a few mistakes once in a while, which of course is fully plausible. But I find it hard that the two I got to remove the frtboard from came from such batches. The chance/risk is just too small that it happens.

The first Burny look horrible. The other two looked alright in the p.u cavity but horrible under the fretboard.

My guess is that they weren't too fuzzy about things.

If I ever have the opportunity to remove a fretboard again I hope it looks good and has no horrible gaps on the sides of the neck.
 
The custom is the Burny I guess and looks like a Dyna made one. Those are the only Burny's I've seen this happen. late 80s, early 90s right?

The GT is not a Burny.
The burst can be a Burny, but only a 1992/1993 LG75GR model made by Fujigen.

I'm guessing they're all late 80s/early 90s models, not the best period of Japanese craftmanship.
Besides that: maybe it's also a matter of being lower end models
 
The burst is just what you pointed out.
The blue one was a late 80's Custom.

The Goldtop was a 1982 Mint collection Greco GT

To find flaws like these gaps in the neck pockets one usually must remove the fretboard. Both the Custom and the GT looked fine before I removed the fretboards but then I was rather disappointed.

My mate removed the fretboard on a 83-84-ish Mint Collection flametop and it also had "wide" gaps on the sides. Same mate also removed the fretboard on a Burny Super Grade GT from the first years and it had gaps as well.
I have no idea what models those were but I think the Flametop was a 65.
 
Ok, all lower end models so far. Interesting, hope you will post again when you find more.

Do you have pics of an original 50s G****n with stripped board?
 
jacco said:
Ok, all lower end models so far. Interesting, hope you will post again when you find more.

Do you have pics of an original 50s G****n with stripped board?

Why do you think they put plugs on the side of the tenon on Super Reals :wink:

I haven't seen any stripped 50's.
 
Koubayashi said:
jacco said:
Ok, all lower end models so far. Interesting, hope you will post again when you find more.

Do you have pics of an original 50s G****n with stripped board?

Why do you think they put plugs on the side of the tenon on Super Reals :wink:

I haven't seen any stripped 50's.

Those were dowels weren't they, not just plugs? I would guess that the dowels are about a couple inches long on the Super Real joints?

I get the idea of using the system in that it increases the contact area between the neck and body joint and kind of locks the neck into the body, but it also adds extra glue joints.
 
JVsearch said:
Koubayashi said:
jacco said:
Ok, all lower end models so far. Interesting, hope you will post again when you find more.

Do you have pics of an original 50s G****n with stripped board?

Why do you think they put plugs on the side of the tenon on Super Reals :wink:

I haven't seen any stripped 50's.

Those were dowels weren't they, not just plugs? I would guess that the dowels are about a couple inches long on the Super Real joints?

I get the idea of using the system in that it increases the contact area between the neck and body joint and kind of locks the neck into the body, but it also adds extra glue joints.

Well, why not do it properly from the beginning and make a neck that sits tight in the joint? No, of course not, precision costs money!
 
jacco said:
Why do you think the dowel tenon LPs don't have a good neck fit. Do you have pics?

Would there be a reason to use such plugs if the neck and the pocket had micrometer precision?
I haven't yet had the pleasure to rip the fretboard of a Super Real EGF but I will when the opportunity comes.
Personally, I think they will look as ****** as the others.
 
You mean the EGFs which don't have dowels? :wink:

Few examples of the ones I own/have owned:

1980 EGF1800
DSCN3702.jpg


1980 EGF1800
DSCN3592.jpg


Or an 1981 EGC1000:
DSCN3863.jpg


Some are not as tight as I wanted them to be. But then again; I don't know what's under the board.

Personally I think it's better to look at these guitars with an open mind. You're so eager to find flaws that all the conclusions you distract from observations you make are negative.
Another conclusion from using dowels could be that it's an extra reinforcement for the joint. A try to improve an old method. You know that in those days they tried to painstakingly copy the originals. They could have done without the dowels but chose not to.
 
jacco said:
You mean the EGFs which don't have dowels? :wink:

Few examples of the ones I own/have owned:


Some are not as tight as I wanted them to be. But then again; I don't know what's under the board.

Personally I think it's better to look at these guitars with an open mind. You're so eager to find flaws that all the conclusions you distract from observations you make are negative.
Another conclusion from using dowels could be that it's an extra reinforcement for the joint. A try to improve an old method. You know that in those days they tried to painstakingly copy the originals. They could have done without the dowels but chose not to.


To find a 2mm gap on the one side and a 1mm gap on the other side of the neck cannot result in any positive conclusion.

That 1800 and the 1000 have miserable neck joints in my opinion.
For guitars at that price one would expect a bit more craftmanship.

The more I use my "critical glasses" the more horrified I get.
 
jacco said:
Yes, that's the same one as earlier. What's wrong with it?

Which do you refer to?
The Burny is another one of same model.
you can see that it isnt the same since this one has no glue in that little cavity on the right side of the neck.
 
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