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Looking for some help Identifying this Tokai guitar
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Brandeis
Plucker


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Looking for some help Identifying this Tokai guitar Reply with quote

Greetings:

I own a Tokai "Love Rock" guitar --- I think!

As you can see in the pictures, someone seems to have messed with the Love Rock logo on the headstock, so I'm looking for some help verifying the history of the guitar before I list it in the Tokai Registry. It looks like someone traced the words "love rock" by hand, and they blocked out the word "model" - I tried to highlight this on one of the headstock pictures.

The serial number stamped on the headstock is # 5031703, and I think that means it was built in 1985. I looked inside the cavities for the model number with no luck, but found "R. Russell" with what looks like a SS# scratched into the aluminum film of the pick-up selector backing plate!

So, can anyone tell me about this guitar (i.e. year, model, pick-ups, etc)?

The pictures are located here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/100378763801244673035/TokaiLesPaul#

Thanks - peter
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Reborn Old
Guitar God


Joined: 11 May 2010
Posts: 481

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks genuine to me from pics you have posted.
The logo irregularities are probably owner touch ups. The Tokai logo
looks OK.
If the back is 1 piece mahogany it's probably an LS-80
If the back is 2 piece mahogany it's probably an LS-60
If you're pretty sure the back is one piece, just check along the body edge around the bottom for continuous woodgrain, preferably in bright sunlight.
There might also be glue remnants of the 60 or 80 decal visible below the serial number that would confirm the model number.
LS-60 + LS-80 piokups in 1985 would both be Zebra 57 PAF's.
LS-80's would have nitro finish and LS50 + LS-60 poly.
Specs were not strictly adhered to after late 1983 so there are exceptions to above specs and export models are sometimes also graded differently.


Last edited by Reborn Old on Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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DaveWW
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 1451
Location: North East UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't look to me like it has FEB so I don't think it's an LS80 even though the spec's went off after 84. As it's a plain top export model with the headstock dimple I'd say it's an LS50.

Dave
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Barks67
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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 271
Location: Leeds UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks identical to my 1985 Love Rock.

Mine is definitely one piece back and two piece maple top like that. When looking at the edge you can see the grain is at a 45degree angle acroos the entire edge with no breaks.

...and now I have confirmation that mine is an LS80. Thanks Reborn Old!










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DaveWW
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
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Location: North East UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Barks67,

What year is yours? The joints on the back can be Very hard to see. I think yours is possibly a non-centre seam 3 piece back and again the absence of FEB mean it's an LS50/60. Doesn't mean it's not a great guitar but I still don't think you's or the OPs is an LS80.

Dave
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Barks67
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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 271
Location: Leeds UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave, not sure what FEB means...but the serial number is 50 31058, so that puts it at 1985.

I have looked over the back body extensively and there are no breaks any where.
I can clearly see the wood grain on the end by the binding is not interrupted and it has a prominent thick dark grain at a 45dgree angle all the way round. Also the long grain when looking at the back has a slight angle - ie not parallel with the strap button and the neck heal - across the entire surface.
If its a two-three piece back they have done an incredible job of matching the grain!

here's the headstock:





and another of the back to show the grain angle:



It would just be nice to know as I never recall there being a sticker on it when I bought it in 1990.
It is a great guitar, well used and loved and dragged around many sessions and gigs over the last 20 years. Has Seymour Duncan pups since i bought it too...so I must stress I am not precious about authentic value. This is a quality working instrument fro me - for life.

I do know my Goldstar Strat is a ST 50 though as I bought that in 1987 with sticker! The others on offer if I remember where ST 40 (rosewood cap, but pups had non staggered pole pieces and tuners with plate covers)) ST 50 (mine with staggered pole pieces and Kluson type tunere) and ST55 (Maple neck with same hardware as mine)
I recall there was about a ?20-30 difference between each model respectively.

http://s650.photobucket.com/albums/uu222/katbarks/2%20Tokai%20Guitars/

appreciate the insight though!

barks[/img]


Last edited by Barks67 on Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:41 am; edited 2 times in total
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Barks67
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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah...got it Fret Edge Binding...so maybe its a 60.

barks
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are reports of stickered LS50s & 60s from 1984/85 with a one piece back. IMO both Brandeis' & Barks67s LPs have a top not interesting enough to be a LS80s. And although possible in 1985, the lack of fret edge binding indicates a LS50/60. Did you test for nitro? LS80 should have a nitro finish.
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Barks67
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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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Location: Leeds UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, even more interesting!

What i find curious is that both mine and the OP are 1985 - serials starting with 50 - but mine differs as it has the bell type truss cover. Also the dimple is different.

Does that signify the difference between 50 and 60, and how do you determine nitro or not?

cheers

barks
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DaveWW
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
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Location: North East UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Jaccos observations are the same as mine.

That's a beautiful ST50 by the way!

You can check for nitro with acetone (nail varnish remover). It's best to do it in a control cavity or somewhere it won't be seen. Use a cotton wool bud dipped in acetone and see if it starts to dissolve the finish or if the finish becomes tacky. If the finish isn't affected it's poly.

Dave
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jacco
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, dimple = export guitar. I believe 1985 is the first year of export to the UK, correct me if I'm wrong.

To check for nitro dip a q-tip in acetone and rub it in on a place where it can't do any harm; cavities etc. If it's nitro it should rub off a little or go a little gummy. With a poly finish there's no reaction at all.
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Barks67
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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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Location: Leeds UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!

Will check the finish and report back, but it seems most likely that this is an LS60 then with a one piece back as Jakko mentions, and its export (to uk) due to the non dimple AND the bell truss cover?

The ST50 is a great guitar (with SD pups too) and also a hardworking instrument... both these guitars are naturally 'reliced"

cheers

Barks
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Barks67
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Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Checked...definitely NOT nitro.

b
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jacco
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 2871
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barks67 wrote:
Thanks!

Will check the finish and report back, but it seems most likely that this is an LS60 then with a one piece back as Jakko mentions, and its export (to uk) due to the non dimple AND the bell truss cover?

The ST50 is a great guitar (with SD pups too) and also a hardworking instrument... both these guitars are naturally 'reliced"

cheers

Barks


I'm sorry I wasn't clear: dimple = export
Most likely a LS50.
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DaveWW
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveWW wrote:
Doesn't look to me like it has FEB so I don't think it's an LS80 even though the spec's went off after 84. As it's a plain top export model with the headstock dimple I'd say it's an LS50.

Dave


+1
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