LS150 Quality Control

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Maz2211

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Good afternoon

Firstly just to say a great forum here - been a huge source of excellent information.

I am new to the Tokai forum and having read about the great value Tokai guitars are - read many posts on here and decided to take the plunge and bought an LS150. I own a few Gibson Les Pauls and this is the first time I have owned a Tokai.

Firstly, I love the sound of this guitar, the way it feels and plays - fantastic!

There are two issues with it and I wondered if this is common.

On the main body of the guitar, there is only what can be described as a dimple - its actually in the maple top as the lacquer covers it perfectly. Its small, but there just the same. Secondly, there is a small nick in the binding, again under the lacquer finish.

Given the price for one of these (not cheap) and the reputation of a MIJ guitar, I am a bit disappointed and would like to invite some feedback.

Thanks


Mark

http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/uploadedfiles/image/DSC00718-Edit.jpg

http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/uploadedfiles/image/DSC00723-Edit.jpg
 
You need to remember that these are made by humans and by hand for the most part.... not by robots. As such, any guitar (or automobile or motorcycle, etc) can have slight blems... such as a single dimple in the nitro (better than having an orange peel issue to deal with). Same with the binding (which I would have never noticed). I've had similar issues with new guitars.... hell, if you look hard enough on any new guitar (or car, motorcycle, amps, book cases,.... you get my point), you are going to find something attributed to the human element of the building of them. It certainly doesn't speak to inferior quality or building. Not a soul in the world would even notice those things unless you point them out to them.

Did you get what you paid for - I'd say so because the big picture here is about a great guitar to play.... besides, you're probably going to put your own nicks and bumps in it anyway. Don't worry about it and enjoy it for what you bought it for (at least I hope) and play it.
 
Would you have pics of the blemishes?

I have never had a "flawed" Tokai but I am sure as they are not machine made there are bound to be minor finish accidents sometimes.

Did you mail order the guitar or did you see it before buying? If it was bought unseen and new you have buyer protection and could contact the shop for a replacement or better, a small compensation which they usually prefer.
 
I've never seen two "blemishes" like that on any new Tokai, not even on a Made in China Tokai.

Send it back, ask for a new one.
 
looktoyourorb said:
Would you have pics of the blemishes?

I have never had a "flawed" Tokai but I am sure as they are not machine made there are bound to be minor finish accidents sometimes.

Did you mail order the guitar or did you see it before buying? If it was bought unseen and new you have buyer protection and could contact the shop for a replacement or better, a small compensation which they usually prefer.

Click on the two links below his name in his post... pics are there
 
marcusnieman said:
Diamond said:
Send it back, ask for a new one.

Are you serious?

Yes. :lol:
Why not...if the dealer is local and no shipping costs are involved then I'm sure the dealer will consider replacing it.

If it's a Gibson then that's another story, consider yourself lucky to get a Gibson with two minor blemishes...but a Tokai should have zero blemishes.
 
Diamond said:
I've never seen two "blemishes" like that on any new Tokai, not even on a Made in China Tokai.

Send it back, ask for a new one.

If you like the guitar, don't bother...

You send it back and get another one, and even though it's perfect to look at, maybe it doesn't sound quite as good as the first one (two guitars are most likely made of different slabs of mahogany).

Tone and a bird in the bush wins out over a couple of small blemishes every time IMO.
 
JVsearch said:
Diamond said:
I've never seen two "blemishes" like that on any new Tokai, not even on a Made in China Tokai.

Send it back, ask for a new one.

If you like the guitar, don't bother...

You send it back and get another one, and even though it's perfect to look at, maybe it doesn't sound quite as good as the first one (two guitars are most likely made of different slabs of mahogany).

Tone and a bird in the bush wins out over a couple of small blemishes every time IMO.

I agree with you.
But if the blemishes bother Mark, then he should try get a replacement....chances are the replacement will sound the same as the current one, and if it doesn't he won't know because he won't be able to compare. ;)

I'm wondering whether those "blemishes" are dings created whilst in the possession of the dealer, or if the guitar left the factory like that?
 
The little depression on the body looks like a shop floor accident...I don't think this would occur at the factory.

On the other hand the binding flaw is from the factory...a bit sloppy but still better than some other guitars I have seen recently (non Tokais).
 
The guitar came from us actually and we are in the process of sorting the customer out as far as my colleague has told me today.

I personally inspected and set the guitar up for dispatch and didn't spot either of these. Frankly not sure i'd ever pick up on the binding one as a red flag to be fair!

In some ways i'd quite like to get the guitar back to check out the other again as it didn't jump out at me. Wonder if it catches the light better at certain angles...

Or it could just be i'm getting old and need to buy some big specs! :wink:

We can get through a lot of guitars in a day, but still, we're pretty good at spotting stuff. Pretty sure I even recommended that top over the other one which has a "beauty spot" in it.

Anyway, the customer will decide and we'll sort as usual.
 
I must admit it does seem a tiny OTT to me, I bought an unseen ES120 that turned up with an inch long 'scar' on the back of the neck, the shop that sent also bundled a load of strings and a 'Sorry, Our fault, return if not OK note'

After 5 years its still my go to guitar.

Moral of the story. Dont get too anal. Its a guitar.
 
Amo said:
Moral of the story. Dont get too anal. Its a guitar.

Agreed but it is nice to see a dealer stand behind his customer's satisfaction. That in itself guarantees I'll shop there again and tell my friends to do so as well.
 
Acctually, it could be worse than those two dings.
Ive a mate who's 3 year old was going mad with some with poster paints and while mum turned her back for 2 mins, his ES150 got a nice going over.

No real damage thankfully, but some of the fingerboard pores around the 10th and 11th are still filled with red and green paint :lol:
 
marcusnieman said:
Agreed but it is nice to see a dealer stand behind his customer's satisfaction. That in itself guarantees I'll shop there again and tell my friends to do so as well.


The shop I bought my LS80 from offered me ?40 to save me the hassle of shipping back and forth if I let my tech take care of it. When the issues were solved and I informed the shop, they backed out, and told me they will ?TRY? to do a discount if I need anything else in the future! :eek:
I won't tell my friends. :wink:
 
I agree that the quality control is not as comprehensive as i hoped right off.
My LS 135(LS 160 whatever you want to call it) has paint on the binding in the cutaway.

The only way to fix that is to scrap it off, which is something i would never dare attempt. It doesn't bother me too much, but id still rather if it was not there and could easily have been cleaned off during manufacturing.

There is also a lot of excess glue around the inlays on the higher frets on mine. Again, not a deal-breaker, but something that should not make it out of the factory without being fixed, especially at the price range.

If i was to do it all over again i think id go for a high end edwards. Ive looked at a few and they are generally flawless.
 
Hello everybody!


Well, I am not sure if I understood the OP's problems correctly. The ding on the body is a ding which is in the lacquer also, or a ding, that is covered by a smooth surface of lacquer?

In the last case that would be something, that'd bother me, too. In the 1st case it is something, that can happen on the way to destination, or in the shop. And as stated above, Richtone offers a great service, as seen in this case!


Paint over the binding is something, I also don't understand: is there bodypaint that covers the binding in the cutaway area? Or is it just bleeding?
Bleeding on the bindings is something you see on nearly every Gibson historic. A somewhat sloppy appearance of the area between binding and body paintwise is something, that you see on vintage Les Pauls all the time.
Excess of glue surrounding the inlays is something I saw on a lot of Tokais, but also on Gibsons. And if you take a close look at vintage Les Pauls you can see it there, also.

I never had a problem with Tokais regarding construction and playability. The craftmanship was great, too. And if I compare the neck tenon of my Tokai to a Gibson Historic, man, I could tell you....,-))))

The only thing that really bothered me was, that my 320 had not a thin lacquer paint. It's not as hard and thin as a historic (well, they aren't that hard also, but more than my Tokai's paint,-))), and somehow I doubt that it is really 100% nitro lacquer (though I have no evidence).

But maybe it just needs more time to cure, I don't know.

I had an Edwards Les Paul Custom (with P90's, don't know the exact model number), and this guitar was perfect, no flaws at all, just perfect.
And as strange as it may sound, this was one of the reasons I sold it, it was just too perfect, as if it was put together by robots, and not by humans.
What appeals my eyes on most guitars is, when you can see that a human being made it, and therefore is not perfect in every detail. It's the imperfection of some things, that makes it perfect looking for me.
Vintage guitars are far away from the precision that you see in modern guitars, and that is something, that makes out a lot of their mojo for me.

I can understand that when you buy a new guitar you want it to be flawless, of course, no question. But there are a few things imo that I can live with, such as an excess of glue or bleeding bindings.
When I have played a guitar for a year it has a lot of wear and tear, because I use it, and don't put it on the wall. And I think, everyone who plays his guitars will see more damage on his guitars within a year than 1 ding,-)))))



Kind regards



Jonas
 
Jonas said:
...Paint over the binding is something, I also don't understand: is there bodypaint that covers the binding in the cutaway area? Or is it just bleeding?
Bleeding on the bindings is something you see on nearly every Gibson historic...

Yep, it was on my R8, but a bit of exposure to light over time, and it disappears completely. The binding can actually go this crappy looking pink colour for a while!

Jonas said:
The only thing that really bothered me was, that my 320 had not a thin lacquer paint. It's not as hard and thin as a historic (well, they aren't that hard also, but more than my Tokai's paint,-))), and somehow I doubt that it is really 100% nitro lacquer (though I have no evidence)...

Interesting, I am also convinced that the current finishes on many guitars that are said to be nitro are not nitro as it used to be, but more plasticky than the old nitro lacquer finishes.

There was some evidence from a LP re-finisher who was using proper old nitro to re-finish the top of a particular LP built after 2006, and the nitro he was applying would not mix properly with the existing nitro on the sides of the guitar. He said that in the past he had been able to get his nitro to blend nicely with the original finish on other LPs made by the same company.

I don't necessarily care about nitro finishes that much, but I hate being bullsh*tted to about products that I buy; I detest marketing half truths and how certain info is simply not mentioned at all.

"Specifications subject to change without notice" - that's just the way it is... good luck consumers!
 

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